[RFarms]

How good are the Cat C18 engines in choppers. Looking at new choppers and can get a C18 inline 6 rated at 765 hp or V8 MAN rated at 775 hp. How do the Cat engines compare to the V8 MAN engine? Do the cats have the power, fuel usage, reliability as the MAN engines? Same brand of chopper so everything else is the same. Going to go with one of these just wanting to get the best engine.

Currently running a Krone V12 just wanting to see which engine will have roughly the same power. Don't want to go down to much in power.

 

[8850jd]

The MAN may be better suited in that it runs a different style of power being a V8 over the inline six cat.
Less torque numbers but just more likely to not smoke a belt. The 24.2 liter man is an awesome engine, in the Claas it has made many customer chopper guys really happy with its all around power.
The Cat I would think would use more fuel also...
In a tractor, I want a cat... In a combine or chopper I want a V8-v12.. As long as I can keep it clean.

 

[cbass]

My first fr chopper had the cat in it. When it was running right you could really pull it down and it would take it. My problem was the service-cat wouldn't work on it cause it was in a new Holland machine and new Holland wouldn't work on the cat engine. Very frustrating! Had a lot of fuel issues but I think if we could've had better service it would've been a nice match. Went to the iveco engines now and are pleased with their performance.

 

[alfred123]

C18 is a bored out C15 if you read construction forums and talk to guys at Cat its not as strong of an engine as it could be running a chopper high and constant load high RPM it may not be the best choice. The Man would be a good engine however parts would be harder to get in NA

 

[JDELITE]

What chopper will this be in

 

[joblo]

We put a c-18 in a claas 492, runs killer. The only trouble we have had was a couple of injector issues through the years. This is a tier 3 motor though.

It sounds like you are choosing krone, and just deciding on power plant. We ran the new cat powered machine and it is great. Power curve is sweet, cruise using constant power works very efficiently in this machine. I was really impressed with it. Much better than the 1000 we had, and constant power was ok once we played with parameters enough. The c-18 is very smooth in that machine.

The big problem is fuel consumption. Because of all the emission controls that thing is THIRSTY! I am not sure on total gallons on board but starting at 7 and by 3-4 o'clock it was time to look for the fuel wagon. That was running an 8 row head. If you could get the motor reflashed to remove all the garbage you would have a sweet ride.

The man motors were very good on fuel but the torque curve drops off like any other v motor, but not as bad. They pull hard. The 980 is hard to get full enough sometimes and thats at 884 ish hp if I remeber right. If I am not mistaken all of the man engines are over the horsepower rating for them to need to be tier 4. Which to me makes this an easy choice.

 

[RFarms]

Thanks joblo. Yes going with Krone. Been running Krone last few years and have had good luck with them. Just curious on the cat engines and trying to do a little research on them. Will be running a ten row head on it. How do you think the power will be compared to our V12? Do you think it will keep up with the V12?

Thought about going to the 850 but was told there not many in country most are going up to the 1100 which is too big for us.

Would you happen to have any videos of the Krone with cat engine running?

 

[birchcreekfarms]

We've got the fr with the c18 and have been very happy with the engine, had 1 injector go out under warranty and cat service was there right away and took care of it. I like the way it pulls and this one doesn't seem to be to bad on fuel (tier 3). We have a 10 row head, would put a 12 on if I could do it over. I've been told they play nice with a steinbauer chip- supposed to really help with fuel consumption

 

[joblo]

I would say power is going to be comparable to the v-12, just a lot more responsive.

10 row is a must if you ask me, if its in 10-15 ton acre conditions I would be thinking about a twelve row.

The head size would have to figure in driving conditions. for us slower is better as long as trucks are not having to clutch. For places that weather plays a big factor then you might need some ground speed to stay on top of the mud.

850 is a great power plant. I would not be afraid of it at all. I don't know why they don't just call the v-12 man a vario horsepower. It does it anyway in eco power. It adjust horsepower and fuel settings according to load. they should set them all at 1100 and if you can use it great if not it adjusts down for load. I guess that you essentially get that when you buy an 1100.

No videos, sorry.

 

[rancherman84]

the C-18 in the fr700 we demoed last fall did great,machine pulled very good and would walk away from 7750s in same field

 

[chopper5]

Another great informative thread! If I understand correctly the only reason for the C18 in the Krone machine was to meet the C.A.R.B. emission requirements so they are just sold in C.A. I believe. The rest of the country is still running the Man. We have a few guys in the area with over 2000 engine hours on the 700's with no issues so far and they are all running a 10 row. We average between 15-23 ton an acre here. As far as an 850 goes they are pretty much a detuned 1100 but their torque curve is alot more operator friendly as the engine has plenty of reserve capacity as it isn't pushing the peak of the horsepower range.

 

[jd6850]

Comparing pre-emission truck values for this thread the pre-emission truck values are considerably higher than emission controlled trucks. Also, the cat engines have never had reliability with their dpf systems. For us, I would stay away from the cat because of what we have heard and experienced with trucks. As for harvesters, the problem really arises when a code comes up for emissions and within a half hour to an hour the codes will shut down the engine until service work is performed. Down the road ten years these will become most likely less reliable. I don't think any of us want to be shut down waiting for service if we have the choice. I would go with the man engine without a doubt. The man v12 in the 980 claas and Krone 1100 are very good with torque and power.

 

[aidank]

We put a c-18 in a claas 492, runs killer. The only trouble we have had was a couple of injector issues through the years. This is a tier 3 motor though.

It sounds like you are choosing krone, and just deciding on power plant. We ran the new cat powered machine and it is great. Power curve is sweet, cruise using constant power works very efficiently in this machine. I was really impressed with it. Much better than the 1000 we had, and constant power was ok once we played with parameters enough. The c-18 is very smooth in that machine.

The big problem is fuel consumption. Because of all the emission controls that thing is THIRSTY! I am not sure on total gallons on board but starting at 7 and by 3-4 o'clock it was time to look for the fuel wagon. That was running an 8 row head. If you could get the motor reflashed to remove all the garbage you would have a sweet ride.

The man motors were very good on fuel but the torque curve drops off like any other v motor, but not as bad. They pull hard. The 980 is hard to get full enough sometimes and thats at 884 ish hp if I remeber right. If I am not mistaken all of the man engines are over the horsepower rating for them to need to be tier 4. Which to me makes this an easy choice.

v impressive engine swap, Ive seen the videos on youtube of your chopper,

how did you manage the electrics, it must have been v difficult integrate it into the Class machine.

Ill guess its an industrial engine same as in a truck & you were able to figure it out how to make it run.

Why move from the original Merc powerplant, is a CAT engine a bit cheaper

 

[joblo]

v impressive engine swap, Ive seen the videos on youtube of your chopper,

how did you manage the electrics, it must have been v difficult integrate it into the Class machine.

Ill guess its an industrial engine same as in a truck & you were able to figure it out how to make it run.

Why move from the original Merc powerplant, is a CAT engine a bit cheaper

Cat and Claas are both same can bus so it's simple.

It was an industrial engine. In our area its common to use diesel engines to power water pumps, so our dealer had this unit on the lot.

The original motor had a lifter chew the block to pieces, making it a large paper weight. At the time a new 502 was going to cost 60k, and the cat was 40k. So we figured we had 20k to make the conversion work.

 

[chrisjordan01]

The MAN may be a better fit because it uses a different type of power, a V8, rather than the inline six cat.
Less torque, but a higher chance of not smoking a belt. The 24.2 litre man is a fantastic engine, and it's made a lot of customer chopper men happy with its all-around power in the Claas.
I imagine the Cat would consume more petrol as well...
I'd want a cat in a tractor... If you're in a combine or

 

[MountainviewTruck]

Cat C18 in a Krone has iT4 emissions, so it has the late model injectors, CGI (Cat lingo for EGR), and compound turbos, but no DPF. They wake up nice with an aftermarket manifold and a big Borg turbo, and then shed a lot of extra weight from suddenly redundant components.