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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello out there. I've got a chem-fallow question.>?

So where I farm we are 6-10" annual rainfall. We can typically get great control of weeds using low rates, bottom of label recommendations, due to the low rain.

The particular situation I find myself in has to do with Winter Canola stubble now as chemo-fallow. The stand was a poor one last year, and what I should have done was a post harvest burndown, but I did not and now have to play catch-up.

So, I had a huge flush of Russian thistle, Kochia, ragweed, and some real toughies like Dalmatian toadflack and Mullen. It is near impossible So far to control the last 2 species.

I mowed the stubble and dead weed carcasses to get better on target. I sprayed just a few days after, so dust may have been a factor to not getting the job I would have liked. As such I have left over weeds, but most of the weeds showing now look mostly like ones missed as they were covered by larger emerged weeds and were not hit with chemical. The Kochia can get a carpet effect and cover smaller weeds that pop up after you kill the larger ones.

So enough back story, the question is concerning chemistries in the fallow period. Planning on putting in winter wheat this fall on the fallow. Chemistries I am considering...
1. Straight dicamba, say at an 10oz rate costs approximately $8/ac
2. A high rate of 2-4-D acid "rugged" is one I use at say 20oz $7/ac. We usually get great kills in our wheat fallow with only 10oz of rugged.
3. Clopyralid, fluroxypyr, or a product called weld that has both plus MCPA. A pint per acre is about $8.

I was reading the AgPhd flyer and they had mentioned Stinger being best on Russian thistle and furoxypyr best on Kochia. However, most of the weeds present are Kochia, so perhaps it would be best to hit it with a very high dose, of just fluroxypyr.

I should note that I plan on treating water with AMS just to boost the kill. Should add about $1.20/ac

Also any thoughts on adding MSO to get through pubescent hairs on leaves?

Thoughts and Ideas go!

Thanks!
 

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Here is what I use in my chemfallow with pretty good results.

5gpa water rate

22oz of RT3 roundup or something similiar like Buccaneer etc $3.60/acre

4oz of 6lb 2-4-D 76c/acre

8oz of Topeka which is generic Dicamba. 8$/acre

1/10-2/10 ouce of Ally for residual purposes and to make the herbicides "hotter" .60-1.20/acre

1 pint per 100 gallon of water of surfactant 8 cents per treated gallon of water.

8-12oz USAG C4 adjuvant (.50c/ounce)


Its all about as many modes of action as you can afford. Its like being in a boxing match with several sets of arms as opposed to just your two fists. Ive never sprayed chemfallow without Roundup. Ive even gone as low as 16 oz of roundup with good success for the application's circumstances. Killing grasses/pigweeds/russian thistle's and kochia's. But whatever you do dont piss of the kochia, they are almost impossible to kill if you just injure them.



Good Luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
What is your rainfall redline? So you find that more modes of action at lower rates is better than 1 mode of action at a much larger rate? That's interesting. Something I have wondered for a while. This is only our 3rd year of chem fallow.

What about a product like finesse instead of ally?

How long does the residual last do you think? How long until you have to spray again on average?
 

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What is your rainfall redline?
I've been getting in the low teens for what seems like a decade, but over history this area is in the high teens for avg rainfall.

So you find that more modes of action at lower rates is better than 1 mode of action at a much larger rate? That's interesting. Something I have wondered for a while. This is only our 3rd year of chem fallow.
Thats what ive come to find out, im in my 5th or 6th year. But the custom applicators and local coops are still putting on lots of a couple modes of action. Mostly because they are NEVER timely getting on chemfallow, or trying to kill pissed off kochia because they were late spraying said kochia. So they just load their machines up with some pretty hot stuff and go spray. That was the main factor in us buying our own sprayer.


What about a product like finesse instead of ally? How long does the residual last do you think? How long until you have to spray again on average?
I havent used finesse, but I have used purestart this season on my first application which I started a week ago, despite the cold temps (low 30's at night) the stuff has been dying. Ill snap a pic of a field I sprayed recently, it was mostly downy brome but had some 2" kochia in there as well. The residual is supposed to be 3-4 weeks for the 1/10 and 4-6 with the 2/10's oz. The Ally is a no brainer, its cheap and it covers your rear in case you get busy with other things.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I will have to try the ally, haven't used it in fallow yet.

We usually try to spray the Kochia before it gets bigger than a softball. This last spray most were from the size of a pencil eraser to about 1.5" across. Wondering if letting them get a bit bigger would help to get a better kill? Hairs become less prominent and more leaf surface to hit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Also, what nozzles have you found to work best? I am currently using the teejet aixr, but considering the teejet turbo tee as it produces a bit finer droplets.
 

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I use yellow teejet turbo's, make sure you use air induction. They produce larger droplets with higher concentration of the herbicide. When you slow down next to a field of beans and the sunlight is just right you can see individual droplets. I farm next to ALOT of beans so drift control is really important to me.
 

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8 oz banvel w roundup seemed to just make my little kocia really sick this year. 2,4-d with .75 oz of aim seemed to smoke it. Just my experience this year. And on my fallow ground I had .1 oz of ally in with the Banvel, roundup, didn't seem to help much. I think I should have let the Kocia get a bit bigger. Banvel was 10 gpa with air induction. 2,4-D and aim was at 12 with XR tips

The drier, more stressed the weeds are the MORE chemical it takes. Every time here. If we catch a half inch rain in the summer I don't wait for weeds to sprout I kill the ones that are growing because of the rain.
 

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The only thing I know will kill toadflax is tordon. I would check the label on the ally as far as rotation restrictions go for canola. We have a field we sprayed glenn on 20 years ago and we still can't grow barley on it. Affinity broadspec doesn't have the rotational restrictions of ally and is labled for more weeds. Might want to look into a bromoximill product as well, been our answer for lambsquarter and china lettuce. Tried the aixr tips a couple of years back and they did a terrible job, have been running the twinturbo nozzels now for years and love them, I believe larger droplets than the single turbos but with the twin outlets the coverage is great. Those are a few of my thoughts.
 

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Ally has an 18 month rotation restriction. If you are drier it could be longer. That's why we use harmony or express. As far as the rest of the SU's go, they all have the same issues glean, finesse, amber, ally, if you use the first three on that list don't plant a broadleaf for 3-4 years unless it's SU tolerant. Even then cross your fingers. Frankly I don't like them in fallow, way too many guys have SU resistant Russian thistle and kochia (a lot of guys say they don't have resistance........but as an ex commercial applicator I can tell you most of them never bother to scout their fields in our area). We have had the best results with glyphosate early, then 2-4-D and dicamba later or paraquat for broadleaves. A lot of guys don't like paraquat (insert stinky, smelly, dangerous comments here). But it takes broadleaves down fast and hard and I just try not to drink it. ;-) Also you can't be stingy with water. Coverage is everything. For all of the farms around us 10gal/ac is the norm and we often go 15-20 when we need to. My personal philosophy is that the most expensive spray job you can have is the one that fails. If that means hauling more water so be it. The size of each farm can make that hard, but we still manage on 6-10 thousand acres a year depending on the year. More often nowadays a ground application of less than 8-10 gal/ac is off label for many chemistries.
 

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X2 on the water, 10 gal is the lowest I go. When spraying morning glory in the summer fallow I put on 20 gal to get good coverage and compete with the dust.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I have some blue turbo twin jets. Its hard to use them after using the aixr. With the aixr when you get the sun right you see all the spray laying down. When I have the turbo in I see a whole bunch of small droplets floating away. May be just perception though. Plus we started cutting higher in our wheat and from what I understand the xr component pushes the spray to the ground better. But maybe not.

I tried 10gal last year and thought I got a better kill with roundup at least with 5gpa due to concentration. I know Hefty bros have stated that when going up against Russian thistle that lower water and higher concentration can often work better since there is not a large leaf surface area. I hear success on both sides, but I did notice that labels are all pushing higher water rates.

I can see why group 2 herbicides could be a bad idea in fallow when I am growing a substantial amount of canola.

I think I will try some tests of different chemistries in the same field.
1. Bison: bromoxynyl, fluroxypyr, and MCPA
2. Dicamba and aim
3. Rugged (24d ACID) and roundup
4. And a mix containing sharpen
 

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I finally got to take some pictures today of some chemfallow I went over, I only got 1/2 done with the field thanks to the wind, but it can illustrate whats goin on with my fields using the mix labeled earlier. By no means am I an expert, I just have a spra coupe and a 400 gal tank and have been forced to learn how to cope using low gallons.









I sprayed this in 75 degree weather 6 days ago, but every day since the daytime highs have been in the 50's-60's and the nights have been down in the 30's. But its still withering away, Id call this application a success.
 

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make sure you use MSO with the sharpen. We had a failure last year with COC and 10 gal. Just a heads up on trying that one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks for the pics Redline. Looks like it is dying well.

Bent, that's what I was thinking. I think some of the weed I have kind of hanging on is actually field pennycress.

Josh thanks for the heads up on the sharpen. Always good to know those little things that can make a huge difference. Thinking of using a crop oil with all the herbicides to get into waxy leaf on toadflak and hairy leaf on Mullen. Haven't tried it yet. I used MSO with assure 2 as I had heard the same thing about it.

Anyone use Husky in fallow???
 

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Don't use Huskie!!! I tried Huskie (15oz) with RT-3 (22oz) AMS & NIS 10 gal/ac. Russian thistle burnt black then ressurected in 10 days. Bayer actually stepped up and bought the chemical back. They also told me Huskie works best when there is crop competition. I have found that to be true. In fallow not so good. I had to do a rescue treatment of 3lb Paraquat/4oz dicamba mix to finish everything off. Expensive mistake!!

I have chem fallowed for 10 years now and it seems like I'm always looking for the master mix. Early season no problem. Late season when hot and dusty I always have trouble. I have pretty well determined that glyphosate/2,4-d mixes antagonize each other. Anybody else found this too?

Tried sharpen this spring and was amazed at how fast it took prickly lettuce down. Two days and it was crispy! Now I'm waiting to see if there is residual for the upcoming Russian thistles.
 

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I found that turbodrop nozzles by greenleaf tech are the best ones to use. Very little drift, great coverage, and they last forever. I have 50,000 acres on a set and they are still dead on accurate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
THanks Tigety. Good info. Have you tried 2-4-D acid like Unison or Rugged with the roundup? I agree there is antagonism, but heard that with the acid formulation there is not.

Also how many gpa with those turbodrops?
 
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