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Discussion Starter #1
Any ideas?
I'd really like to do corn, suspecting a yield drag like corn after canola.
I've got some grass issues on this land, nothing serious anymore and I successfully raised wheat on it last year with no issues but I want to keep on the grasses for a few more years.
Is corn a bad idea? Something else that I may want to consider for good grass control?
Maybe just plant peas in it? Might get a little over the top with mustard?

Ideas much appreciated!
 

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Will have some of that of my own. Corn never has been/likely will not be option here. As long as mkt works plan on having my own pea seed for next yr which helps a bit with cost and will be going with that on good chunk of acres. I like peas after canola - thinking same for mustard, but never tried. Heat(group 14 stuf that maybe called diff down there) and that nasty roundup would great for getting canola(may even be better for mustard) et al and if you can apply it right at groundbreak around here you usually get enough of it that do not need expensive broadleaf later - could use something cheap like Assure for grassy. Actually having bit of canola/mustard for peas to climb up not a bad thing here and Heat works good on it for preharvest - roundup would be cheaper if you did not want seed.
 

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peas are definitely an option.... works pretty well with a heavy rate of Heat in burnoff to hold back mustard for while. I always find on that rotation that the Canada thistle gets pretty wild in the peas after an oilseed, definitely will want to do a fall burnoff this year.


spring cereals are fine too as long as you add a little extra fert to keep the proteins up.


as to corn i would not know. not sure if you used any granulars like edge or trifluralin in the mustard. the label doesn't say much about recropping corn.
 

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Which grassy weeds are you concerned about, wild oats/quackgrass/brome?

Here I have some group 1 and 2 resistant wild oats and corn is a very good tool to have because after three apps of gly there won't be any wild oats making seed in the corn year. Liberty canola is next best option when Centurion mixed in, the Amigo seems to make the Liberty work really well on grassy's. Thinking maybe Edge ahead of the peas going forward and in wheat Avadex is probably gonna be standard equipment. Soybeans are great for keeping field clean with Authority and three passes of gly, but need the late rain.

As far as yield drag on corn after canola I don't think it would be devastating by any means, we harvested some really nice corn last year grown on canola stubble. What really showed up this year is need a black field with residue spread evenly. I harrowed a quarter of canola stubble this spring ahead of my corn and the wind blew the straw into ditches and hillsides where it looks terrible now, should have protilled it instead. Ideally I would like to have a granular kit on the planter and try this stuff with the corn on canola stubble: https://www.ptagtiv.com/en/products/agtiv-field-crops-granular/
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Which grassy weeds are you concerned about, wild oats/quackgrass/brome?
Barnyard grass, foxtail grass, cheat grass.

Sure there is a couple wild oats hiding out there but they have not shown thier face to me yet. Only been farming this dirt since 14, had wheat on wheat since the beginning of time before I got it and the ways of controlling barnyard grass seem to be getting harder all the time.
Rimfire max is the only thing that has worked for me and after a few years of being on limited production it's on the chopping block but it sucks on pigeon grass so now I'm getting that in the fields as a trade off.
Kinda like growing a little wheat for broadleaf control, especially Canada thistle.
I did find some herbicide called thistrol that works on peas that's doing really well, went after a patch in the mustard with it for curiosity and it didn't do much damage so it's a viable option for peas and mustard together.
I also dont have resistant wild oats yet but my neighbors do and its getting out of hand fast. Curious to see if they raise wheat again next year. Bet they do.......
 

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Been doing peas following mustard for years. This year is the only year I remember the mustard showing itself in the peas. I sprayed Viper just before our first rain of the season, the rain that got all the volunteer mustard going and it still isn't that bad. No worse than the number of thistles sticking above the canopy. More mustard may become visible over the next few weeks though. Preharvest glyphosate on peas when 90% turned gets me good control of grasses and still use the peas for seed next year. That idea of not using peas sprayed with glyphosate for seed is a false blanket statement. A mature and drying pea plant won't absorb glyphosate into the seed. Glyphosate isn't the preferred method to speed up harvest, so you would be using it for next years weed control and as such you shouldn't be rushing out to spray your peas when overly green.
 

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Been doing peas following mustard for years. This year is the only year I remember the mustard showing itself in the peas. I sprayed Viper just before our first rain of the season, the rain that got all the volunteer mustard going and it still isn't that bad. No worse than the number of thistles sticking above the canopy. More mustard may become visible over the next few weeks though. Preharvest glyphosate on peas when 90% turned gets me good control of grasses and still use the peas for seed next year. That idea of not using peas sprayed with glyphosate for seed is a false blanket statement. A mature and drying pea plant won't absorb glyphosate into the seed. Glyphosate isn't the preferred method to speed up harvest, so you would be using it for next years weed control and as such you shouldn't be rushing out to spray your peas when overly green.
For me the use of roundup on green peas for seed is issue as like to harvest them when can just get seed through combine without squishing them due to bleach. Do find that Heat does give quicker dry down as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
peas are definitely an option.... works pretty well with a heavy rate of Heat in burnoff to hold back mustard for while. I always find on that rotation that the Canada thistle gets pretty wild in the peas after an oilseed, definitely will want to do a fall burnoff this year.


spring cereals are fine too as long as you add a little extra fert to keep the proteins up.


as to corn i would not know. not sure if you used any granulars like edge or trifluralin in the mustard. the label doesn't say much about recropping corn.
I wonder if the mustard would even germinate by the time the peas would be seeded, peas get slammed in pretty early.
I am liking this pea thing more and more.
Could make some choices as it comes with herbicide options.
I've done a little experimenting with thistrol this year on Canada thistle (labeled for peas) and it's working quite well. I was curious if it would kill mustard so I sprayed a small patch of canadians in it and it dinged it but definitely didn't do much harm.
Could use raptor if it is not out out of hand but thick enough for concern or go to Basagran if it gets crazy and I want to bail out.

Seeing how well mustard controls grass on it's own (its actually pretty crazy) I have some fear it would have a lasting effect that might bother the corn.
Kinda like planting wheat or corn after sunflowers, they just can't hack what ever it is that sunflowers leave behind.
Most people think it's the water consumption witch has some play in it but sunflowers definitely have a mechanism to them that suppresses grasses.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Been doing peas following mustard for years. This year is the only year I remember the mustard showing itself in the peas. I sprayed Viper just before our first rain of the season, the rain that got all the volunteer mustard going and it still isn't that bad. No worse than the number of thistles sticking above the canopy. More mustard may become visible over the next few weeks though. Preharvest glyphosate on peas when 90% turned gets me good control of grasses and still use the peas for seed next year. That idea of not using peas sprayed with glyphosate for seed is a false blanket statement. A mature and drying pea plant won't absorb glyphosate into the seed. Glyphosate isn't the preferred method to speed up harvest, so you would be using it for next years weed control and as such you shouldn't be rushing out to spray your peas when overly green.
I'll have to research viper, here we use spartan on peas but it wont touch mustard or canola. It was funny this spring a seed rep was telling me there is someone working on a spartan tolerant canola..... I just about fell out of my chair laughing at him. All they need to do is change the label.
For preharvest I use gromoxone + valor. The valor slows down the gromoxone alot. The kill is incredible with a rather wide range of crops you can plant following. The valor has a pretty good residual. Been using it on chickpeas and been very happy. Hopefully they expand the preharvest label, would be really nice on canola.
 

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Have only swathed or used glyphosate on peas for dry down. Always been yellow peas but understand how greens would be different. Don't grow RR anything so peas are the crop to go after grasses and thistles. I could use a desicant on peas and then do post harvest glyphosate I suppose but then top growth is cut off thistles and so that is a problem.

Many ways to do things and reasons why I suppose. All I can say is that in 15-20 years of peas after mustard this is the first year I have any mustard showing. Used to use Odyssey and that kept the mustard in check too. It's simply an odd year this year on this farm to start any discussion on weed control and what does/doesn't work. My mindset is to toss aside anything observed this year as it likely won't be applicable for the next 10+ years.

Have lots of volunteer flax in my barley too. More concerned how that plays out. The mustard in peas is of not much concern.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Don't grow RR anything so peas are the crop to go after grasses and thistles.
I find it interesting you say thistle because that always seemed to be the big issue in peas here.
I harrassed some guys about using Basagran a few years back and they all told me I was crazy but after a couple years I'm not crazy anymore. Now that I found mcpb I'm confident thistle will be a thing of the past as I start growing peas, hopefully....
 

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Been doing peas following mustard for years. This year is the only year I remember the mustard showing itself in the peas. I sprayed Viper just before our first rain of the season, the rain that got all the volunteer mustard going and it still isn't that bad. No worse than the number of thistles sticking above the canopy. More mustard may become visible over the next few weeks though. Preharvest glyphosate on peas when 90% turned gets me good control of grasses and still use the peas for seed next year. That idea of not using peas sprayed with glyphosate for seed is a false blanket statement. A mature and drying pea plant won't absorb glyphosate into the seed. Glyphosate isn't the preferred method to speed up harvest, so you would be using it for next years weed control and as such you shouldn't be rushing out to spray your peas when overly green.
I'll have to research viper, here we use spartan on peas but it wont touch mustard or canola. It was funny this spring a seed rep was telling me there is someone working on a spartan tolerant canola..... I just about fell out of my chair laughing at him. All they need to do is change the label.
For preharvest I use gromoxone + valor. The valor slows down the gromoxone alot. The kill is incredible with a rather wide range of crops you can plant following. The valor has a pretty good residual. Been using it on chickpeas and been very happy. Hopefully they expand the preharvest label, would be really nice on canola.
Viper is called Varisto in the US. It is raptor and basagran.
 

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It is hard to keep up with Cdn vs US chemistry. I do have couple qtrs right across road from each other that are peas on canola stubble and did viper on one side and just assure on other side of road. Never have bothered to figure out photo posting on this site,but if you PM me with phone number could show the difference - if interested. Viper a good product under right conditions - just expensive up here. Curious what Raptor/basagran mix wouold cost you down there? Need to look up that thistle one too as that is another good reason growing peas after canola and controlling it as think thistle balls almost come with pea seed in many cases. What does it cost?
 

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It is hard to keep up with Cdn vs US chemistry.
I think that is intentional so we here in Canada don't realize how bad we are getting hosed. Seems like a lot more generics in use down in USA, hopefully more become available here soon.

Is Viper supposed to work on thistle? I have sow thistle poking through my pea field(which was sprayed with Viper) and it's chest high! Not sure if any thistle in this picture though...

 

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Discussion Starter #15
It is hard to keep up with Cdn vs US chemistry. I do have couple qtrs right across road from each other that are peas on canola stubble and did viper on one side and just assure on other side of road. Never have bothered to figure out photo posting on this site,but if you PM me with phone number could show the difference - if interested. Viper a good product under right conditions - just expensive up here. Curious what Raptor/basagran mix wouold cost you down there? Need to look up that thistle one too as that is another good reason growing peas after canola and controlling it as think thistle balls almost come with pea seed in many cases. What does it cost?
I used Varisto at full rate (21 oz) on some soybeans that are on chickpea stubble. You dont just put that anywhere!
Think by the time the glyphosate, ams, MSO crop oil was in there it was 26$ so your probably not getting it any worse than us.
Somewhere in my phone I have the chart of the ratios but there is almost too much raptor in it, I hear some people cut it by adding Basagran.

So the thistrol cost me about 8$ an acre but I dont think the rate I used would be needed in a regular situation.
What I did was went out with the sprayer in the chickpeas, ran my lines and clicked sections on as needed to spray the Canadians.
How I did it wasn't really a good way to do it but I had no idea what it would do to the chickpeas and didn't want to find that it just set the Canada thistle back so I waited till it was in bud.
Here is what I know so far, the thistrol works on thistle and creeping jenny but I'm not seeing anything else, might get small tame buckwheat.
The chickpeas got dinged pretty good but looks like they will only be a week to 10 days behind the unapplied.
The rest of them have just started flowering so will see soon if they will make seed or not but they are definitely growing again.
I honestly think a guy could probably get by using this when the garbs are young at the light rate.
The first day there is obvious damage to the Canada thistle but from there it moves really slow. I'll have to get some pics.
Really old forgotten about herbicide.

Let me know if the link works
Home - Label Database
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I think that is intentional so we here in Canada don't realize how bad we are getting hosed. Seems like a lot more generics in use down in USA, hopefully more become available here soon.

Is Viper supposed to work on thistle? I have sow thistle poking through my pea field(which was sprayed with Viper) and it's chest high! Not sure if any thistle in this picture though...

Something about the raptor screws up Basagran on thistle unless your on soys and can use glyphosate with it, than it's pretty effective again.

Nice looking peas! I would not have parked my sprayer there! It would definitely sink when I got back in the cab! Buried mine today touching up sour patches in wheat where the kochia is coming like mad
 

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I am speaking of using glyphosate for preharvest on peas when saying its a good opportunity for long term thistle control. In crop viper isn't that strong on thistles I am seeing. Not compared to the Curtail, Infinity, and Barricade I used on flax and barley this year. If my peas looked like that SwMan, trying to control a few sow thistles would not cross my mind. My biggest issue with sows is that if they don't dry down enough they wrap on the pea auger so I have to wait a couple more days to combine. Other than that, a few poking through is not a big deal. Last two years I have been really good at growing sows it seems. But a little tillage thistle growing here and there is perhaps not a bad thing. People pay good money for tillage radish, maybe thistles are a cheap second. The sows are mostly in the flooded out compacted areas from the wet years so as that land reestablishes my sow pressure should drop significantly.
 

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I am speaking of using glyphosate for preharvest on peas when saying its a good opportunity for long term thistle control. In crop viper isn't that strong on thistles I am seeing. Not compared to the Curtail, Infinity, and Barricade I used on flax and barley this year. If my peas looked like that SwMan, trying to control a few sow thistles would not cross my mind. My biggest issue with sows is that if they don't dry down enough they wrap on the pea auger so I have to wait a couple more days to combine. Other than that, a few poking through is not a big deal. Last two years I have been really good at growing sows it seems. But a little tillage thistle growing here and there is perhaps not a bad thing. People pay good money for tillage radish, maybe thistles are a cheap second. The sows are mostly in the flooded out compacted areas from the wet years so as that land reestablishes my sow pressure should drop significantly.
If you want to heat up the viper on the big thistles you need to add more basagran. Will be harder on the peas though. The imazamox doesn't do much of anything quickly if you have heavier soil and higher PHs.

Bas is ~560$/case in MB tho it adds up goddamn quick.
 

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Ya, I'm at $17/ac for viper and another $2 or so for the nitrogen. The better plan may be put the peas in the ground then do burnoff about 7 days later. Only did that once before. Have been using Authority preseed and always had the thinking it should go down before seeding, and that may be exactly opposite of the truth. Also thinking it's easier to kill the kochia early using glyphosate by spraying preseed but perhaps 10 more days is not a big concern. A shift in my thinking may provide better spring weed control and so better options for incrop.
 

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When Heat first came out tried using the low rate after seeding and on canola stubble did not even think I got enough kill on volunteer canola that was growing let alone residual. However, now use Heat at high rate and try to get that timing of spray right at groundbreak - around here if you seed peas near 2" deep you wait 10 days(at least) after seeding. If you do this and get any sort of growing conditions think you can avoid other post emergent options. I would avoid growing peas if had to use chemical in the "I" family - except for Viper and want to even be careful with that. Did have some leftover UAN this yr and bit extra with Viper seemed to work well too. I am sure though that other areas are different.

I assumed that Edge might have been used on mustard so maybe not great followup for pea crop following, but do think it a good product on peas as well for grassy other than bad wild oat. Maybe other granular options better in other areas as well.
 
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