[KLAJB]

Opinions - Smart Cost Management or Irresponsible Cropping Practice?

On our farm we save significant dollars by cutting chemical rates. We are willing to take the chance it won't cost us in the long run. I am guessing it will be about 50/50 on opinions but I am curious to hear ideas.

 

[Don Boles]

Well...

Poll material?

 

[jesseb99]

I am not sure what it is like where everyone else is, but here it seems like people have done that with glyphosate for a while and now it is coming around to bite all of us. Now some of the weeds have no worse reaction to glyphosate than the beans do.

 

[460]

Short answer is I think cutting rates is or will cost you money at some point. One problem is if lack of control happens it's hard to pinpoint why in a lot of cases so by going full rate you eliminate that variable.

There are a lot of variables. An example would be perfect conditions at a cut rate vs not so good conditions at full rate your control might be equal. I believe timing (combination of staging and weather) is probably more of a factor than the rate. And I know we're all guilty of pushing the timing window.

 

[SWFarmService]

It works for some time but when it all goes up in smoke what ya going to do? Its not worth it, there is only a few modes of action in the first place. All it takes is one method to fail and its game over. It reminds me of smoking, you won't notice the effects of it for a few years and then one day you are SOL!

 

[nig71]

As a short term budgeting measure or a long term practice? That is the question, it also depends where you favor placing your savings. I have heard of farmers having done this long term and have some 'ahem' interesting weed problems.

Financially the problem for me is this, I can add up $300 per ha of variable costs such as chemical, fertilizer and fuel. My budget shows me that my overall costs are in the region of $600 made up of the rest; payments, wages, repairs etc. I budget around $70 for chemical so although it makes up a sizable portion of the variable cutting rates by ~10% or so won't make a big dent in my overall cost structure. I think if you are looking for saving you should be examining the areas that provide the least return and are top heavy in what they provide for you.

Don't get big or get out get good at it or get out. If your business is stretched financially you are probably better off doing less hectares well than doing lots poorly. You will make more money in the long run which is the aim of the game, but of course you won't have 'cough cough' bragging rites.

 

[MNfarmer85]

I wouldn't cut rates on herbicides, just going to make a big mess later on with resistant weeds. Bad part is it affects others as well in the long run, we have roundup resistant waterhemp here and never skimped on rates but some neighbors did in the past... Weed seeds spread.

 

[litefoot]

Its easy to blame the neighbors for weeds, but if you have a fence on your field, you have a place that the full rate isn't being applied! I tend to fall prey to conspiracy theorys, so I still find it amazing that the RR problem happened just as the patent for RR came off.......just sayin....

 

[SWMan]

I would dial back spending on equipment before I ever cut back on chemical/fertilizer/seed!!!

 

[KLAJB]

Guess I was wrong about it being 50/50. What about wild oat herbicides that already offer a cut rate for green foxtail? At what point do you use full rate to get wild oats - when you see one per square? Everyone seems to put a lot of faith in the chemical companies that they are supplying us with the proper rate information.

 

[khigerd]

Everyone seems to put a lot of faith in the chemical companies that they are supplying us with the proper rate information.

Ah wait a minute. Do you really think the EPA would let chemical companies post rates willy nilly?

 

[khigerd]

I tend to fall prey to conspiracy theorys

You really should stop that.......just sayin....

 

[KLAJB]

Maybe I am a bit of a conspiracy theorist as well but I do not have faith in the power of government regulatory agencies controlling companies like Bayer and Monsanto. They have a pretty poor record against big business - i.e. CN and CP

 

[wavesofgrain]

The so if the rates are wrong than who is to say that what you are using is right? It's all subjective then at this point. Yeah I guess we do often trust large companies not to take advantage of us. But also I'm always amazed how many guys will slap the letters PHD after their name (figuratively speaking) every time they want to justify a practice that is unsupported.

 

[khigerd]

Maybe I am a bit of a conspiracy theorist as well but I do not have faith in the power of government regulatory agencies controlling companies like Bayer and Monsanto. They have a pretty poor record against big business - i.e. CN and CP

OK let's conspirer for a minute. If Monsanto is now making Round Up that doesn't work on some weeds because the patient is about up, then why does the Durango DMA from DOW not work any better on the 'resistant' weeds?

Back on topic...cutting chemical rates = bad things.

Most chemical companies (I didn't say all) have a performance guarantee. If their product does not perform when applied according to the label, they will pay some sort of claim to you, be it money or chemical to clean up the mess. By running a less than label rate, you lose the backing of the company. Been there, done that, have the mess to prove it. A crop advisor recommended I apply a half rate of two different chemicals in an effort to save a few dollars and it failed. Neither company would back their product because I was off label. In the end, I spend a whole lot more dollars to clean up the mess then I was trying to save.

 

[SWMan]

What about wild oat herbicides that already offer a cut rate for green foxtail? At what point do you use full rate to get wild oats - when you see one per square? Everyone seems to put a lot of faith in the chemical companies that they are supplying us with the proper rate information.

I have done the 50% rate thing for green foxtail in the past and now have resistant wild-oats to show for it, so I speak from experience.

Suggested rates have some buffer built in for weather/stress/staging/etc. I don't understand all the inner workings of plants but try to spray in the best weather possible and at the best growth stage to maximize kills. Using full label rates should help if one of the variables is hindering performance. One thing that should not be over-looked is to go back after you spray to examine how good of a job you do!!!

 

[rickfly]

oh the stories we could tell about the chem companies and their guarantees.... there is always an out for them and you are the one at fault regardless, simply put your ass is not nearly as well covered as theirs, and you will always pay for their research and mistakes, after all you are the one with the addiction. in this day and age of gmo and high inputs ,we are at the mercy unless you go off grid, and not too many financial institutions will help you down that road. conspiracies abound , and the incredible risks that farmers take are beyond most gamblers comprehension. after all is said and done the one with the highest cost and risks gets the least return.

 

[Licensed to kill]

oh the stories we could tell about the chem companies and their guarantees....

My favourite is...on the same label "reduced control may occur if sprayed when weeds are under stress" and "crop damage may occur if sprayed when crops are under stress" WTF????

 

[nig71]

Guess I was wrong about it being 50/50. What about wild oat herbicides that already offer a cut rate for green foxtail? At what point do you use full rate to get wild oats - when you see one per square? Everyone seems to put a lot of faith in the chemical companies that they are supplying us with the proper rate information.

Another way of looking at this problem here is if you do have small amounts of wild oats in your paddock and you are already spraying the half rate for foxtail then effectively if you use wild oat rate then you are getting the control half price and perhaps delaying the day the problem becomes large. Kinda like your cup is half full eh.

 

[SWFarmService]

There is no conspiracy to it, this stuff is put together in a science lab, controlled environment, it can be hard to tell what's going to happen in a crop stress situation so they must cover their a&& also but recommended rates are determined by a happy medium between good kill and low crop stress. Sprayer overlaps and skips add to problems. Especially in a no-till operation a sprayer is the most important tool in the box, don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings but is not the combine