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3720 BG with the double shoot wing off side of disc. Hardest pulling drill on the market per foot of implement. Works great in standing trash, not so great in trash thats laying on the ground.
 

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With the case scraper when you go deeper into the moisture the scraper fills with mud. Zero issues with gauge wheel plugging. If the gauge wheel did plug I was going grind off alittle where the bearing butts up to, so the gauge wheel is tighter at the bottom. But I haven’t had one gauge wheel plug. At 11000 acres I moved the scraper up. It has just about wore in flush after season. From what I’ve seen I think I can get to 18000 acres on disk. The atom jet scraper should last longer and not plug like the case scraper.
 

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I have a Pillar, like every other drill, how well it works is going to depend on your conditions. I farm in a 12” annual rainfall zone, 2/3 of that comes between late fall and early spring. It’s not uncommon for us not to get any appreciable rainfall from early June to mid October. In the spring the Pillar works fantastic for me. It's just high disturbance enough to leave some dark soil to help warm things up. The fertility is placed close enough to the seed to give the plants access to it quickly, but is far enough away I can put down pretty much whatever I want and not have to worry about seed burn. I can seed through just about any amount of residue without it plugging or hair pinning (I seed into 90 bu stripped winter wheat stubble). There is no drill I would rather have for spring seeding conditions.

In the fall the Pillar usually does OK, but there is room for improvement. Getting deep enough to consistently reach moisture can be a challenge for the drill, and sometimes its just not possible to get deep enough. While I can get down to about a 3" seeding depth, the drill is a lot happier if I don't go much past 2". In the fall I set the cleaning wheels closer to the ground to help prevent the drill from moving as much dirt, still the back gang will sometimes push dirt over the front gang's rows. My drill was on 10" spacing but I have respaced it out to 12" to help prevent burying the front rows. I really wish the drill had more positive seed firming to help get good germination in marginal soil moisture conditions other than just relying on the rear wheel to close the furrow and pack the seed. Despite my complaints against its fall seeding performance, the drill usually does an acceptable job. I have acquired a cheap hoe drill to use when we have an extra dry summer and moisture will be deeper than the Pillar can get to though. I know a guy a couple hours south of me who farms in about an 8" rainfall zone, where he is at its standard practice to dust the seed in in the fall and wait for rain. They don't have nearly as much snow there so they can wait for the seed to germinate after a rain and it can slowly grow all winter. For what he does the Pillar is working out great.
 

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With the case scraper when you go deeper into the moisture the scraper fills with mud. Zero issues with gauge wheel plugging. If the gauge wheel did plug I was going grind off alittle where the bearing butts up to, so the gauge wheel is tighter at the bottom. But I haven’t had one gauge wheel plug. At 11000 acres I moved the scraper up. It has just about wore in flush after season. From what I’ve seen I think I can get to 18000 acres on disk. The atom jet scraper should last longer and not plug like the case scraper.
Is this DS granular fertilizer openers or
liquid ?
 

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X2 on what triticum said about the Pillar. I’ve done the same and bought a cheap hoe drill to use with the same cart I use on my pillar. Works well. If its wet or dry I’m prepared.
 
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Salford Double disc
KHart Double Disc
Pillar Single Disc w/seed boot
Single Disc Bourgault

Pros/Cons to each?

Not looking at Deere's?


I was impressed with the new undercut opener from K hart that I ran on my Deere last spring. Worked better than I expected and would be in the running if I was in the market for a drill.

Pillars are good in coarser soils or soils with higher organic matter. They have done a lot of work on packer wheel design lately and it is starting to work in more conditions. I see the Pillar as a disc drill that works very well in non-disc drill areas. High trash and cooler soil conditions since it has more disturbance than most.

No experience with the other ones.
 

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Not looking at Deere's?


I was impressed with the new undercut opener from K hart that I ran on my Deere last spring. Worked better than I expected and would be in the running if I was in the market for a drill.

Pillars are good in coarser soils or soils with higher organic matter. They have done a lot of work on packer wheel design lately and it is starting to work in more conditions. I see the Pillar as a disc drill that works very well in non-disc drill areas. High trash and cooler soil conditions since it has more disturbance than most.

No experience with the other ones.
Just out of curiosity, which K-Hart opener were you referring to?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I have looked at the new KHart Undercut 8612 opener, i'm not prepared to buy new. His new frame coming in 2021 looking intriguing, but i'll have to let someone else take the plunge on depreciation first. Currently have a 76ft 3310 Bourgault single shoot, been a great drill, ran it for 11yrs, aside from the massive furrows it leaves & fact i have to go slow in order to reduce the dirt flow from the 3rd rank covering the 1st. I nearly puled the rigger on a 4612 KHart this fall but was a day late, been looking at Salford's for years, but since they quit making them for western Canada & the exorbitant costs on replacement discs i've continued my search. I tried a P2082 NH 2 yrs ago, drill flowed more dirt then i expected but left a nice canola stand, as for the tank & tractor, they ruined the demo experience no fault of the drill. So i'm back looking at Pillar, 1.25 shelf & 1.5" bellow, placement & proximity which attracts me as opposed to MRB 5" away. I want the roots to grow down vs sideways & down. We've have MRB's before & not saying i'll never go back, just looking for a single row unit to continue inter row seeding. I started inter row seeding 4 seasons ago in attempts to help reduce the dirt flow on my 3310, & works quite good actually. I find the furrow isn't as deep & the stubble acts as a fence to reduce it flowing onto the neighbouring row. But being single shoot & putting my entire dry PKS with seed i'm always anxious about mortality. Here in southern Manitoba the past 5yrs been 11-20.5" rain fall, my farm average is just shy of 15" April to October, stumbled across this interesting site while looking for my area average:
I've been looking to upgrade for 5yrs, just haven't decided or made a move, this year with attempting to put more products down i need to upgrade my cart, so if i do that i wan sectional, if i get a new cart with sectional it midas well or likely will be dual shoot, if i have a cart with sectional dual shoot i midas well get a drill that i can side band or mid row AND if i do all of that maybe i should change from UAN to Urea & maximize the new cart capacity, my seed tender & simplify the loading with single tender vs tender & tanker. Sometimes i get over thinking it & just forget about upgrading & continue on what i'm doing for simplicity sake. For the question regarding John Deere, no i haven't thought about one, not that i'm impartial to JD just not prepared to buy a 1910 cart because i don't want to buy a C650 or C850 cart due to dollars & thats what i'd need to get sectional. We have had Bourgault on this farm since we got rid of the discers decades ago, & if i want sectional i'm confident in the Bourgault tank & its capabilities. That said i'm still open to opinions. But back to drills, right now there's a Pillar at the top of my list, & i'm off to check out a Bourgault cart tomorrow. The Pillar on 10" spacing, my biggest concern is trench closure, could that not be fixed with a chain dragged behind the opener but ahead of the packer? Very common here with JD planters.
 

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Have the NH P2080. Very happy with one exception. Factory closing wheels are horrible in notill. They do not move what little loose dirt is created unless very damp to wet. Changed to the angled closers from Needham - problem solved.

From your list - I find the Pillar and K Hart most interesting, but not that familiar with the others
 

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We owned a Pillar 4010 at one point, they are a really heavy well built drill and probably the lowest maintenance single disc drill on the market. But the first thing I would recommend to you is get a demo to actually see how it performs in your soil before just going out and buying one. Make sure you put it in some of your worst conditions to see how it will react. kirschenman probably put it best that they are a good drill for the non-traditional areas for disc drills like northern sask/alberta where they are usually on the wetter side with lots of heavy trash. They move quite a bit a soil if you're dry or don't have a lot of stubble/roots, especially if you have to seed deeper to reach moisture. If you ever go to look at a pillar opener the disc is set with a compound angle, having both a horizontal 7-degree and a vertical 10-degree angle, I believe the Bourgault 3710/3720 use the same angle as well. So if you're seeding wheat out the seed boot at 1.5 inch deep then you're blade is cutting at least 3 inch's deep. We couldn't seed any faster than 4.5mph without covering the front row in an extra 1.5 inch layer of loose dry soil even with the cleaner wheel all the way down. The blade was fracturing the whole seedbed and pushing the loose dry soil straight sideways onto the front row. The problem would go away as soon as we got moisture back in the soil and started seeding shallower. So long story short, pillar drills are a good drill but you got to make sure its going to work in your soil on your farm, it wasn't a fit for our soil so we moved on to a different disc drill for this coming year.

I see you mentioned trying a P2082. When we went to ag in motion in 2019 they had a pillar 4012 and a NH P2082 in the demo's. From what I could tell from that demo the P2082 left a way smoother/level field finish. So if you thought the P2082 moved too much soil for you're liking, then the pillar will probably move even more than that. I'm guessing NH moves less soil because it has a 7-degree horizontal and 0-degree vertical angle, plus the gauge wheel is always applying constant pressure helping prevent soil throw.

As someone mentioned earlier there is a double shoot boot that atom jet offers for the single shoot P2080, looks like a good option to convert a drill to be similar to a P2082.

Can't comment anything much on the salford or khart. I would choose the salford for the better frame but I like the looks of the new khart 8612 opener, looks like it would do a better job of closing/packing the furrow than the salford and probably less trouble with hairpinning too.
 

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Just out of curiosity, which K-Hart opener were you referring to?
I think he means the 9612 opener that K-Hart started making as a retrofit to replace the john deere single disc opener. If you google Khart 9612 you can find more info and pictures on it. There was a article in the western producer about it in January 2020, the price quoted in the article was $900 per row unit.
 

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Just out of curiosity, which K-Hart opener were you referring to?
9612 as DirtDigger7 mentioned above. Model 9612 Disc Opener | K-Hart Industries

I see them as a really good option when a guy gets to the place where everything needs replacement on a Deere. By the time you put in pins, bushings, boots, gauge wheels, firming wheels, etc, you get to almost $600 per opener just in labour. Not that much further to a K Hart in that case. And I have heard that if you replace bushings twice in the main arms on a Deere they will be warped and stretched that you probably can't do it a third time. We are talking about 100 000 acres by that point probably, but it could give some new life to old frames.
 

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I have looked at the new KHart Undercut 8612 opener, i'm not prepared to buy new. His new frame coming in 2021 looking intriguing, but i'll have to let someone else take the plunge on depreciation first. Currently have a 76ft 3310 Bourgault single shoot, been a great drill, ran it for 11yrs, aside from the massive furrows it leaves & fact i have to go slow in order to reduce the dirt flow from the 3rd rank covering the 1st. I nearly puled the rigger on a 4612 KHart this fall but was a day late, been looking at Salford's for years, but since they quit making them for western Canada & the exorbitant costs on replacement discs i've continued my search. I tried a P2082 NH 2 yrs ago, drill flowed more dirt then i expected but left a nice canola stand, as for the tank & tractor, they ruined the demo experience no fault of the drill. So i'm back looking at Pillar, 1.25 shelf & 1.5" bellow, placement & proximity which attracts me as opposed to MRB 5" away. I want the roots to grow down vs sideways & down. We've have MRB's before & not saying i'll never go back, just looking for a single row unit to continue inter row seeding. I started inter row seeding 4 seasons ago in attempts to help reduce the dirt flow on my 3310, & works quite good actually. I find the furrow isn't as deep & the stubble acts as a fence to reduce it flowing onto the neighbouring row. But being single shoot & putting my entire dry PKS with seed i'm always anxious about mortality. Here in southern Manitoba the past 5yrs been 11-20.5" rain fall, my farm average is just shy of 15" April to October, stumbled across this interesting site while looking for my area average:
I've been looking to upgrade for 5yrs, just haven't decided or made a move, this year with attempting to put more products down i need to upgrade my cart, so if i do that i wan sectional, if i get a new cart with sectional it midas well or likely will be dual shoot, if i have a cart with sectional dual shoot i midas well get a drill that i can side band or mid row AND if i do all of that maybe i should change from UAN to Urea & maximize the new cart capacity, my seed tender & simplify the loading with single tender vs tender & tanker. Sometimes i get over thinking it & just forget about upgrading & continue on what i'm doing for simplicity sake. For the question regarding John Deere, no i haven't thought about one, not that i'm impartial to JD just not prepared to buy a 1910 cart because i don't want to buy a C650 or C850 cart due to dollars & thats what i'd need to get sectional. We have had Bourgault on this farm since we got rid of the discers decades ago, & if i want sectional i'm confident in the Bourgault tank & its capabilities. That said i'm still open to opinions. But back to drills, right now there's a Pillar at the top of my list, & i'm off to check out a Bourgault cart tomorrow. The Pillar on 10" spacing, my biggest concern is trench closure, could that not be fixed with a chain dragged behind the opener but ahead of the packer? Very common here with JD planters.

I would say that a Pillar will disturb about the same as you are used to. If you are seeding between the rows already that will really help mitigate the throw, and keeping an eye on the wiper wheel height above the disc will also make a big difference on throw off the disc side, though there is definitely some throw off the scraper side to watch out for.

Pillar has a used 60 foot on their website right now. Used Equipment It is actually our neighbor's drill and has been well taken care of. It was in the first couple years of the 5 plex frame rollout and there have been some gussets and reinforcements added to it as they found weak spots on that lineup of drills but it was all taken care of by Pillar as updates.
 

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I see them as a really good option when a guy gets to the place where everything needs replacement on a Deere. By the time you put in pins, bushings, boots, gauge wheels, firming wheels, etc, you get to almost $600 per opener just in labour.
Has any buddy had problems with soil plugging in between the two angle discs on the K hart opener. I sometimes have enough excess soil moisture where the third row on a 1895 can plug a single disc opener against the gauge wheel especially on a tractor track. Also watching the k hart video how do you adjust depth . Didnt see a gauge wheel. I still like the Deere opener because of its simplicity. I have rebuilt my once already. Only thing i would like to do different is change out the smooth closing wheel with the toothed version.
 

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Has any buddy had problems with soil plugging in between the two angle discs on the K hart opener. I sometimes have enough excess soil moisture where the third row on a 1895 can plug a single disc opener against the gauge wheel especially on a tractor track. Also watching the k hart video how do you adjust depth . Didnt see a gauge wheel. I still like the Deere opener because of its simplicity. I have rebuilt my once already. Only thing i would like to do different is change out the smooth closing wheel with the toothed version.

Because one disc is leading and the other runs in the shadow it should not be an issue with plugging on the K hart I do not think. Depth is adjusted by adjusting the packing wheel in relation to the discs.
 
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