[Spreaderbrad]

Just wondering whats people's thoughts are on a disc front or sickle bar front on a self propelled swather?? Just in the progress of buying a swather and it comes with a 16ft discbine front and also we have a tractor towed sickle bar mower conditioner and wondering if it's worth while modifying it to go the swather.

 

[south aussie]

we had a case sp with sickle front and last year went to a tractor drawn 1375 massey discbine. wouldn't go back to a sickle personally, just so much quicker! take a bit of power/fuel to run though. mainly cereals that we are cutting

 

[offroadnt]

We run diskbines in all hays and some cereals for silage and greenfeed. Capacity is limited by horsepower, these machines don't plug, they will go through mole hills and bunches of old hay without feeling it. In downed crop you can tilt the header forward and cut right at the ground, sometimes you have to slow down a bit for that or you'll get a poor cut. They don't do as nice a job as sickles and the crop doesn't come back quite as even but keeping your knives up helps.

Oh! If you have ground that you are crossing gopher hills, pivot ruts or flood dikes because of speed and the weight of the header you get allot more bounce. The next generation needs a floating cutterbar.

 

[kendalwpg]

A disk is so much simpler....less to wear out....and as said they are fast and will cut just about anything except rocks!! If you have land with stones it should be rolled to push the stones down. We find that while hp is the speed limiter it is often how smooth the field is also. Cutting speeds can be up to 12 to 14 mph but depends on thickness of crop and how smooth the field is.

 

[Ben Heide]

Discs are tend to be more daily maintenance, but much quicker/simpler. If you cut any of the native grass species that are wooly and tough cutting, a set of sharp knives on a disc works well.

 

[snapper21]

Discs don't like rocks but are simpler to fix than poking yourself in the eye with a reel tooth while trying to avoid slicing your fingers off on sickle. Then there is the plugging issue. The half ton 4x4 and tow rope is never too far away cause you are constantly unplugging. I will put up with rocks and never go back. I have a 13 foot discbine and figure it will cover a bit more in a day than an 18 foot sickle machine on account of less stops to unplug and change sections and guards.

 

[Hillbillyreefer]

I have a 16' and 18' sickle machines and a 15.5' disc. The sickles haven't been out of the shed in two years, can't see myself going back. Ever!

The disc uses more power and fuel. I feel if comparing litres/ton or hours/ton the disc would kick the sickles butt. I have no data to back that up though, just a feeling. It also takes a bit more daily maintenance, but this requires less time than changing a couple of sickle sections, and waaaaayyyyy less than one good plug up. Money well spent, wish I'd have done it years ago.

Cutting hay is a much nicer job when the only time you get out of the machine is to have a leak, and a quick visual inspection why stretching the legs!

Check out AlbertBucks comments on sickle mowers he has some excellent posts on the subject, contrary to my own opinion.

 

[Spreaderbrad]

Cheers all, very good comments! This swather I'm getting is 190hp so should handle discbine alright?? just had a customer say the other day will only get a sickle bar in cause discs leave a horrible cut.

 

[JD105404T]

Hey guys,

This next year we have been thinking about upgrading our Hesston 1014 swather sickle type swather to a newer John Deere sickle type. Everybody says they really like the disc type, but they all say when its time to replace the turtles and knifes its very expensive. I was curious how many acres a set of turtles and knifes will last?

Thanks,
JD105404T

 

[Ben Heide]

Turtles lifespan depend on debris and conditions like sand and rodent hills. Have only had to replace 3 on mine and it's an '02. 2 on account of stones on new ground. Now I roll hay land every 3rd year in the spring and have had way fewer problems. My knives were brand new to start this season and after 140ac of tame hay, some road allowances and about 50 ac of native hay they are definitely ready to be flipped over. 2nd side will not usually last quite as long, maybe half.

 

[durallymax]

Discs can leave a poor cut with a poor operator and poor setup, so can a sickle. Discs can leave a beautiful field as well and at 3 times the speed. You need to choose the right knives, set the tilt right, set the disc speed right and drive the right speed. If you don't have rocks to break your knives, make sure you replace them or flip them if possible to keep them sharp. Don't cheap out. The lost productivity and quality from poor knives isn't worth it. We run two Pottinger V10's and couldn't be happier. Used to run a NH HW365 with 18' head and would not reccommend the 18' head, too big so it had a lot of issues. The smaller heads didn't have half as many issues as we did with that thing.

 

[CRToney]

When we were shopping for a swather haybine or discbine, we were told that if our hay went over 2.5-3 bales per ac a disc is what you need less than that then a sickle machine. We bought an HS18 to put on our H8060. We go 7.5 mph in 1.5 bale/ac alfalfa/grass hay. Fields too rough to go the 10-12mph that a 16 ft disc would require. Guys with disc machines here with sandy land wear out stuff quickly. Just like we wear out guards and sections. Higher speeds wear things out faster I believe.

 

[harsh]

The cost to replace disc turtles is about the same as new guards and sickles, and as dura llamas says you cut way more in the same amount of time. We figure one self propelled disc machine will cut about 1.5 to 1.75 times a sickle, even in rough fields. The newer machines have suspension on the rear axle and or cab so rough fields are not as big of an issue.

As far as wear, set the cutter bar flat and don't eat dirt and they will last a long time. Conditions are the determining factor on wear, kind of like asking the question " how long will the cutting edge last on a loader", all depends on what it's running in or on, and the person sitting behind the steering wheel!

 

[Dlturner]

None of our local dealers even sell new sickle swathers anymore. The only place I've seen a disadvantage was in a poor stand, thin hay.

 

[alfred123]

Turtles lifespan depend on debris and conditions like sand and rodent hills. Have only had to replace 3 on mine and it's an '02. 2 on account of stones on new ground. Now I roll hay land every 3rd year in the spring and have had way fewer problems. My knives were brand new to start this season and after 140ac of tame hay, some road allowances and about 50 ac of native hay they are definitely ready to be flipped over. 2nd side will not usually last quite as long, maybe half.

flipping knives every 200 acres? that seems like a lot we have considered a disc machine to increase capacity between 1st and 2nd cut we do 2000 acres with our macdon 922. However in the custom haying a lot of the land is rough rocky and mole hills we are speed limited by the roughness not the capacity and in fact the 922 rarely ever plugs the rolls open up to let slugs through. Would a disc machine cost more to run than a sickle machine? we go through about 50-70 sickles and around 20 guards in a season that seems high but some are changed because they are wore and some because of breakage. That's around $400 a year sometimes belts or other unexpected breaks occur to anyone comment on the cost to run a disc per acre of per season??

 

[alfred123]

Discs can leave a poor cut with a poor operator and poor setup, so can a sickle. Discs can leave a beautiful field as well and at 3 times the speed. You need to choose the right knives, set the tilt right, set the disc speed right and drive the right speed. If you don't have rocks to break your knives, make sure you replace them or flip them if possible to keep them sharp. Don't cheap out. The lost productivity and quality from poor knives isn't worth it. We run two Pottinger V10's and couldn't be happier. Used to run a NH HW365 with 18' head and would not reccommend the 18' head, too big so it had a lot of issues. The smaller heads didn't have half as many issues as we did with that thing.

Not to completely hijack this thread but we wondered also about a big triple setup like a v10 or a front a rear combo mowers as on our sickle machine conditioner limits capacity on a set of double or triple mowers we got 2 or 3 times the conditioning power plus with our export alfalfa we are having trouble drying it we already rake with a claas liner so the rake pass is mandatory anyways just be raking 3 or 4 smaller swaths instead of two big ones

 

[2390]

I do agree a discbine will cut anything and never plug,but what about all the dirt it throws in the swath?I bought one this year and i can't believe all the dirt it puts in the swath.I drag my hayfields level every spring,i put a high stubble kit on my discbine and have the header tilted all the way back,and i rake 2 rows together to try and shake more dirt out and theirs still dirt in the swath.Local dairy bought hay from a guy and their milk production dropped by a 1/3 and they couldn't figure it out,final conclussion was all the dirt in the alfalfa.Changed feed they were using and in a week they were back to full production.They will never buy alfalfa that was cut with a discbine again.I will continue to use my 18' nh sickle mower in all my lighter hay,but when i cut my really heavy lodged hay i will use the discbine,simply i don't need to feed my cows dirt.

 

[offroadnt]

How on earth are you getting dirt 2390, really dry sand?

 

[durallymax]

A disc can put dirt in the swath, but with all of the things you mention it shouldn't. Are you farming blow sand?

 

[Ben Heide]

flipping knives every 200 acres? that seems like a lot we have considered a disc machine to increase capacity between 1st and 2nd cut we do 2000 acres with our macdon 922. However in the custom haying a lot of the land is rough rocky and mole hills we are speed limited by the roughness not the capacity and in fact the 922 rarely ever plugs the rolls open up to let slugs through. Would a disc machine cost more to run than a sickle machine? we go through about 50-70 sickles and around 20 guards in a season that seems high but some are changed because they are wore and some because of breakage. That's around $400 a year sometimes belts or other unexpected breaks occur to anyone comment on the cost to run a disc per acre of per season??

A couple of local guys who do custom tried disc machines and found they were tough to work with in bad conditions. As usual one in particular was always getting the tough jobs. He found that a sickle/guard combo was better and a bit more durable when it came to rocks and debris, so he runs the Macdon sickle header now instead.

I roll my hay ground, and will not do custom cutting on ground that hasn't been. Mine probably wore out as early as they did because road allowances always have gravel stones in them, and a couple of old yard sites are still turning up junk after years of cleanup and clean out. I also like them very sharp, some of the 'prairie wool' type native hay just cuts so much harder if I try to limp through with dull knives. I think the extra fuel alone pays for the new set, and they're only about 45 mins to switch for 1 guy.