The Combine Forum banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,228 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I made the mistake of talking to the Exactrix guy at a trade show years ago, since then I have got e-mails non stop! I guess the U.S. doesn't abide by Canada's anti-spam law.:rolleyes:

I would typically file this under the: "If it sounds too good to be true..." file. But I am no chemist and have not tried it. The equipment is very expensive and surely has almost no resale if it doesn't work. I get leery of anyone who talks of being able to cut rates on fertilizer but that is one of the claims.

Is anyone on here using it and are there efficiencies to be had? Can you grow more grain per # of fert? Anyone do any side-by-side trials? Does soil type and climate matter here?

I am going back to fall banding and need to set up something going forward. If it is as good as advertised I would consider it. Thanks :)

EXACTRIX TAPPS Formulators for Corn, Wheat & Cotton Utilizing NH3
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
I ran the Exactrix tapps system on my seed hawk for five years. Do not run it any more and could not even give it away. (Bad sign). I still do the tapps thing on my new disk drill but found out you DO NOT need all the expensive Exactrix stuff to do it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,228 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I ran the Exactrix tapps system on my seed hawk for five years. Do not run it any more and could not even give it away. (Bad sign). I still do the tapps thing on my new disk drill but found out you DO NOT need all the expensive Exactrix stuff to do it.
Do you mean that high pressure not needed? Just blend stuff in the furrow? Did it wear out?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
It is true that you do not need the overpriced Exactrix set up to do that program. I know people who are doing it. The one guy fertilizes 2 - 3 weeks sooner than he would otherwise apply NH3 in the fall.

I did look into doing it with cold flow on our drill and the guys I talked to said they thought it could be done without a high pressure NH3 system but it didn't seem like anyone has done it yet.

I understand the concept but I don't know how substituting products (phosphate or sulfur liquid products) might change the result. For example, one of the things I do not understand is how important the Thiosulfate is to the process. It does not seem to be that common around East Central Sask and from what I hear needs to be heated if it is to be stored over winter.


I would still like to test it, but before jumping into something new I like to have an expectation of what the results might be like and goals for how it will impact the business.

The concept is great! Stable/accessible N and S, available P ... Maybe next year.;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,156 Posts
Is the NH3 not just lowering the pH so the phos is not tied up. If you are on a leachable soil it might make sense. Lots of studies show that our phos in western Canada goes into a big pool and it may not all be available this year, but it is usable over a longer time frame. If you use less phos with the exactrix because less gets tied up you put less into the pool and eventually yields will go Down.
If it takes so much N and P to grow a crop it has to come from somewhere, be it chemical, soil organic matter, animal, atmosphere, etc.

Different story if you have runoff or leaching Issues. Then the more you can make available in year 1, the less product you have at the end of the season to lose to the environment.

Tiled fields must have huge nutrients exported to the rivers/lakes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
It works fine without pressure. I know this because I do it with a microtrak cooler. I run mid row banders on my drill with closing wheels on them. Nh3 comes down to the trench bottom in half inch lines. There is a smaller stainless steel tube for the liquid blend in front of the nh3 steel tube. Both tubes have rubber sleeves on them to prevent freezing. Nh3 is blown into liquid stream to create tapps. The liquid side of the system is pressurized to around 50psi but changes with different rates and speed. My system tops at 80psi. My liquid pump is electric drive. Everything is variable rate and section control. Runs off a Ezpro II monitor. Since I ran an Exactrix for five years I already knew how things we're suppose to work. My new system was partly developed by myself and setter mfg in Russel Mb. I did all modifications to the banders to make this work. Total cost for ALL fertilizer equipment was LESS than $25000. Not including the MRB. My system is simple and works great. Yes thio sulfate is needed to make the proper tapps reaction. Works awesome for canola. I am not a huge fertilizer user but been very happy with my yields. Been soil testing the same spots since the beginning and most levels have only been growing. I farm a lot of sandy ground too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,799 Posts
Hmm studies done in Ontario show reduced yield when placing the p in the n row. The studies showed the n zone was too hot early for the roots to access the important early phosphate. It is true that sulfer will make the n more stable as it does with ams but I don't know how much you can cut back. Probably similar amount as if you were using esn. We run maxquip and are happy with the ruduction of gassing off. We haven't cut rates at all but I believe it must be a bit more efficient because we can't keep a wheat crop standing to save our lives.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,472 Posts
I personally don't think a very significant percentage of NH3 can interact with a phosphorous liquid.

In a production plant Ammonia is bubbled through Phosphoric Acid to form Mon Ammonium Phosphate. It seems to be technically impossible to to end up with a Nitrogen content above about 16%. Therefore you see products like 10-50-0 , 11-52-0 and 12-51-0 and don't see numbers higher than this until more sulphuric acid is added to bring the sulphate content up from 2 to 4% such as the 14% found in 16-20-0-14.

Keep in mind it is Sulphuric Acid that is used to dissolve the phosphorous ore that is the base of all of these products.

I think the TAPPS process occurs in furrow in many conventional situations as well as in production plants. However there may be economics to running a fertilizer plant in the furrow with low price base products, but there is certainly some down side for the plants to have this all happening among its roots, as explained below.

http://www.grainews.ca/2011/04/04/scientists-weigh-in-on-tapps-concept/
.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
About 60% of my p goes in the seed row along with any small amounts of k and or micros. With my light ground too much fret in the seed row just burned things like canola and flax. The Nh3 sulfer zinc and the rest of the p goes down the mrb. There are many studies that show fertilizers blended together out perform fertilizers applied separately. Liquid blends do this very well. In my case only about 6-8 gal per acre of liquid blend go down in the mid row allowing the tapps to take place. Large amounts of k if needed are broadcasted. Liquid potassium sulfate works great in the mrb blend but is just too expensive of a k source. I have played with humates in the mrb blend and works too but it's also pricey.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Haystack if I have my drill out of the ground stopped and I put my system in manual and spray the mixture on top of the ground I get theses little piles of neon greeny blue slush. ( pictures on Exactrix web site )Very little gassing off occurs but the craziest part is I can shut it off and go right to the banders and pick the stuff up in my hands. It's cold to the touch but zero nh3 burn, slight ammonia smell. That itself proves that it's safer to the small seedlings. As for all the chemical technical stuff, I just cannot explain it other than saying you need all three products together to make it work. Nh3, 10-34-0 and 15-0-0-20. More products can be added but these are the base three.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,228 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks Farmboy611. All that stuff could be installed on a chisel plow or something like that for fall banding? Did Setter's make more of these or is yours one of a kind? All the liquid products are readily available in this area? Might have to come for a look.;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,472 Posts
Ammonia is invisible, both as a liquid and a vapour, its impossible to see it unless it has no other source to absorb latent heat from during its phase change, other than the humidity in the air, which it freezes into a fog. I wouldn't want to do one of those drop experiments in a shed.

If the perception was true you could blend these products in a tank and sell it.

I think 10-34-0 and 15-0-0-20 are physically near their limit to absorb ammonia, otherwise they would just manufacture a higher analysis product.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
How does one sell slush. Fert companies tried to granulate it in the 50's with no success. It needs to be made on the go. If I cannot smell hardly any ammonia after I blowing it onto the ground it had to of reacted with the liquid. You have to see it yourself. Try going under you drill after blowing nh3 on top of the ground on a calm day. You will burn your eyes off. I ran the Exactrix system for five years before. That was something I noticed right away compared to working under our old cultivator in the field when applying nh3
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
I have talked to a lot of producers who make tapps using a max quip system. Works great too, and still way cheaper than the Exactrix version. Simpler too. The problem with the Exactrix is it's very complicated. They have since come out with simpler versions but anyone who looked at my seed hawk said no way. Too much stuff to go wrong. I found this to be very true by the third year running it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Now i have to get out my book. If you use the true ortho ratio for the liquid side you will need a 11-19-0-10 blend which is said to be the most stable. Once you use that ratio to provide your P needs you then add 2.25 times the N to P. IF you want 30lbs per acre of P you will need 67.5 lbs of total N to maintain the true ortho ratio of 27-12-0-7. This was delevoped by Cheron Chemical in the 50's. Can give you the guys name who invented it, but I need to look it up. When you add K thio sulfate and or ammoniated zinc the formula changes somewhat but you can still maintain the origal blend with K and zinc added if you want. On my farm I use a slighly lower rate of P because my levels have been constantly growing. The funny thing is very very few people know this. Liquid sulfur has always been know to stabalize N. Works great with 28-0-0 as a poor mans Agrotain. By using the true ortho ratio you stablize the ammonia while improving P usage. Which is similar to Alpine starter but get your N too. Alpine is for the seedrow this however is not. Sulfur is photo toxic and should never be in the seed row, but I know many do it with good results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Thanks Farmboy611. All that stuff could be installed on a chisel plow or something like that for fall banding? Did Setter's make more of these or is yours one of a kind? All the liquid products are readily available in this area? Might have to come for a look.;)
I do not see why not. I'm pretty sure it's already being done. I'm not sure if Setter has done other set ups like mine before or not but he knew very well about the Exactrix stuff. Exactrix has the patent on making tapps and they protect that patent very well. Other companies can not directly sell you equipment to make tapps. They can sell you equipment to dual place nh3 and liquid together though.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top