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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I wanted to know header angles using either one or both Claas feeder faceplate and MacDon header tilt cylinder.
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This is both Claas and MacDon all the way forward, steepest knife angle.
Won’t clutter thread with pics, just show my partially modern and partially super crude measuring set up, read smart phone and scotch tape.
So the readings were:
32/43/62/47 degrees where with scale readings
32-Claas all the way forward ”10” and MacDon all the way forward “E”
43-Claas all the way forward ”10”and MacDon all the way back “A”
62-Claas all the way back ”-10” and MacDon all the way back “A”
47-Claas centred “O” and MacDon centred “C”

At 47 and a normal cutting height I set phone on a knife section and it beeped, exactly 0 degrees.
Checked combine and it was facing uphill by 1 degree, interesting a basically flat knife happens at centred positions.
Draper is a 10° angle to knife. All this is roughly but real close.

So…think I will center MacDon at “C” and use the 21 settings Claas provides on faceplate.
Much greater range and ease of setting.
Keeps all the MacDon settings in the best position.

More research!
 

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Hmm - just FYI - One of the features of the Headsight "Horizon" controller is a built in slope sensor. You bolt it on the rear of the head at a specific spot, and then it will tell you a "angle" on a header App on the VT. We use this for certain makes of chopping corn heads to give a deck plate angle, so the operator can keep the head at the OE recommended pitch.

Never thought about applying it to Draper heads, but if it was properly calibrated, it would tell you your knife angle on the go. At present the calibration is a "preset" for a specific header model.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Don’t think that would have a significant assist to a draper Jeff, the only time one cares about knife angle is when cutting lodged crop, setting whatever max angle it takes to pick crop.

You remind me I already need more research, rather than a typical cutting height I‘d like to know what angles give best pick with knife points (note shorter points plugfree knife) just clearing ground and can that be done leaving the 6 skid shoes in their customary (for me) lowest (knife highest off ground) position as well as the table spring suspension in the normal centred range.

I will swag table lowered on ground and spring suspension centred will increase angle 4° from my all angle controls centred and typical cutting and spring header suspension sitting on down stops. Maybe 5°.
Edit: Yes, it was a 5° change.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Research complete…well, for now.
Set and left MacDon tilt at centered “C”
Contour Max wheels set and left @ 2
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Header height set @ centered spring float range 2
Skid shoes set in lowest (highest knife) position
Only the Claas faceplate fore/aft angle was changed
Steepest +10
Wood Rectangle Asphalt Road surface Flooring


Wheel Tire Boat Watercraft Automotive tire

The skid shoe and contour max wheel are just tickling the ground, vast majority of cutterbar weight on full width cutterbar poly.

Claas face plate shallowest -10
Building Road surface Rectangle Asphalt Font

With the drills these days doubt you’d ever want to cut much higher than that?

Watercraft Boat Vehicle Boats and boating--Equipment and supplies Grass

So, what did I learn?
Appears all cutting height adjustment can be done through the 21 position setting Claas feeder faceplate fore/aft.
With contour max wheels set @ 2 and shoes in the lowest position (highest knife) will have a little wear.
Plenty of cutting height range with just one function, Claas feeder faceplate.

A tad early for the pea harvest that this field is though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
@Don Boles are you setting this up so the sections are horizontal to ground at the lowest cutting position? then tilting back and pivot on buddy wheels for cutting off ground?
Partly, the original intention was to better understand skid shoe, contour max wheel, and the two methods of header tilt relationship as well as at those various settings the knifes relationship with the ground.
Which I now do.
For the vast majority of harvesting I will swag that MacDon tilt cylinder at center “C”, contour max wheels at 2, header height at center of range 2, set Claas feeder faceplate to suit cutting height or if you need to scrape lodged crop off the ground.
This means that just one, scaled (21 positions) control needs used. Lodged and normal height cutting can be set in the Claas AHHC settings. Excellent!

Oh, should point out, I reversed the cylinder hoses and sensor of the feeder angle, the usual, Claas has it backwards, MacDon has it right and I wanted the control to have the same effect on cutting with all three functions, Claas feeder faceplate tilt, MacDon header tilt, MacDon contour max wheels.

To your first point, if I had extensive lodged crop to pick I’d raise skid shoes all the way up (or remove, so easy and light now and all 6 are the same) pull contour max wheels up all the way up to flatten the knife as much possible.
Experience always the ultimate teacher though.

In order to use -8, -9 and -10 Claas feeder faceplate range though do this
Product Grass Stadium Font Sport venue

Automotive tire Font Gas Bumper Engineering

It’s not over cut, that range is needed to accommodate Claas lateral tilt range.
That new FD2 tilt cylinder mount is a pita as this blower and step did not exist during proto work.
MacDons bandaid fix is a tilt cylinder travel limiter which I would not have as a gift…literally.

One software update for 22 on the green meanies CEBIS display is continuous display of favourites (7) on right side, finally!
So you’ll be able to get this continuously

Font Gadget Display device Multimedia Screenshot

Instead of this
Gadget Font Display device Multimedia Electronic device

I assume the function of the star favourite button has just been reversed.
So, make sure you get the 22 software updates!

Also, Cruise Pilot and CEMOS Automatic functions have been drastically software overhauled.
 

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I must say Don over the the last few years have really appreciated many of these thread starters containing all manner of tid bits of useful info with regard MD headers and the combines…. Thanks. I imagine others (and including myself sometimes undertake similar such info gathering exercises however don’t have the same confidence that the wider group would be interested.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
You’re welcome Dug, I just hope it’s useful to some, wanted to figure this out for myself anyway so may as well share.
Happen to believe MacDon FD2/Claas combo is as top shelf as it gets, may as well try and get max performance from both.
 

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I know nothing about this, but sure appreciate the timing of the plan. I have an airseeder dude who should have been looking at threads like this on those late last Fall - lol. Farmers do have lots of excuses with weather and such, but planning for the things that happen about the same time each yr still is pretty important.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I have an advantage on the rest of farmers that actually work, this is the kinda of thing I do whenever I’m not doing whatever it is I do.

My semi retirement hobby.
 

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You just reversed the Class feeder house tilt sensor and hoses? Assuming has to do with the function of buttons and direction you push them?

Don, while you're tinkering would you like to make up a switch box that you can change from the cab to individually control the 4 rotor flaps? Been trying to get them to update CEBIS so you can pick and choose which ones you want to close but no such luck. Ideally, in canola, I'd like to be able to close from rear coming forward rather than the way Claas does it going from front to back.

You'd think it'd be easy with a touch screen and a bit of s/w but I think they don't want to interfere with the years of CEMOS logic for Auto Separator control.

Was thinking a guy would probably just have CEMOS close them, then override with switch (maybe vice versa). Not sure if there is a sensor on the grate covers to tell if they are closed, if so, would be substantially more complicated.

Cheers, semi-retirement comes with extra challenges.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks Jim and yes it does but doing product improvement keeps me interested.

Yes, hoses AND sensor both need reversed or electronics shut the control off.
Will send you sensor pic by end week. Ah, still have them!
Automotive tire Green Camouflage Vehicle Military camouflage

Yours and Claas stock
Automotive tire Crankset Motor vehicle Bicycle chain Bicycle part

With Dons mod and correct way.
How many decades will it take for Claas to make this right?!
Or maybe you think Claas has it right?

That front little toggle switch normally used for vario knife bed position also controls header tilt, contour max wheels and feeder faceplate fore/aft depending on how everything is switched.
MacDon logic correct, pushing toggle away from your hand either tilts header forward or raises wheels both of which cut lower.
But noooo, Claas feeder faceplate backwards, stock setup by pushing switch away from hand pulls faceplate back cutting higher. So reverse effect. From the same toggle switch. Sounds pretty handy eh?!
I will guess you can reverse hoses without pic or instructions, lol.
Only downside is if you have faceplate pulled well back on header engagement it will warn you the knife is too steep, opposite of fact. Quickly gotten use to to have all 3 functions have the same effect.

Funny you should say that about rotor cover closing order, that came up at the pre-series debriefing in Dec of 19, Claas claims shutting order makes no difference.
Major 2022 CEMOS Automatic software update, perhaps our concerns will be addressed.
 

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Yep WRT that front toggle action, the logic …..and convention would say sweep it away to right equals down….. same as a loader joystick with the crowd action…. No question.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
It feels right to me now, you pull the header closer to you or push it away my logic, but more importantly all three functions operate to the same crop cutting effect.
It’s likely easier to change Claas than MacDon oddly enough as well.
 

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And WRT bombdoors, maybe it would be better shutting from back first…. Logic might say that mog/ straw is getting beaten up a little more as it travels rearward so might be best to block it of there …?
 

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Allegedly, my FD250 will be here sometime in June or July. Will have to tinker with your info here Don. It's appreciated.

As for the Rotor Covers, I think Claas is wrong in saying there is no difference. Any CTS owner always started from the back and worked their way forward with filler plates. Had to leave the one back section out for sensors.

I'm positive Dug is correct, straw is beat up more as it moves rearward, finer particles, less grain, unless in tough conditions sometimes you need all the rotor, overloads shoe worse in dry conditions because you're getting more beat up small stuff on it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Allegedly, my FD250 will be here sometime in June or July. Will have to tinker with your info here Don. It's appreciated.

As for the Rotor Covers, I think Claas is wrong in saying there is no difference. Any CTS owner always started from the back and worked their way forward with filler plates. Had to leave the one back section out for sensors.

I'm positive Dug is correct, straw is beat up more as it moves rearward, finer particles, less grain, unless in tough conditions sometimes you need all the rotor, overloads shoe worse in dry conditions because you're getting more beat up small stuff on it.
You’re welcome Jim.
Let me know, good excuse for a bike ride to walk around it!

Not sure how precision the wiring harness is, perhaps plugs could be reversed?
There are no sensors on the shutters themselves so if plugs could be reversed…
Will study but with the increased complexity of 4D on mine not sure how that would work.

I tend to agree though, the pan under the rotors has no separation ability, why not let seed out sooner?
I would like to think a proto unit would have allowed random closing positions.
I would like to think that…but I doubt it.

I never did peas last year so had concave 5 (of 6 on 8800 only) permanently blanked, front 4 from cab on the go or CEMOS Automatic.
In flax (last thing I combined) with 5/6 covered and 1250 rotor rpm (also only 8800) shoe loss very low but rotor loss a bit higher.
4/6 shoe loss higher than rotor, with rotors slowed to 800 losses pretty much balanced.
Wish there was (2) 1/2 rotor grate covers on grate 5, grate 4 on 8700 and down units.
Or a higher capacity shoe?!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Don, I got the news yesterday. FD2 won't be on time.
Delivery date = unknown
Wow, sorry to hear that, I can assure you the wait while out of your hands will be worth it.

The two groups of kids I harvest with have two FD 240’s and two FD 245’s coming but you are not giving me a real warm feeling to a reality on that.
Without trying to sound humble, lol, the main reason they ordered them was because I ran beside them with my FD 240 last year.
Not the entire reason, but the main one.
 
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