[twitter]

this is an quite intersting issue, what harvest temp. do you have while harvesting?

i thought a bit about the turbo speed and i think it should not run away, but i could be wrong with this.

you said the fields are very dry so i would be worried about catching them fire if the straight pipe lets some sparks go

so the case has no noise compensation at all or is it just build differnt ??

 

[87jumpy]

We had a few 9760 machines that were smoldering inside...we believe it was coming between the rotor and the rotor gearcase. It happend to him 4 times i believe and then it rained...after that rain, no problems. The other machines were at our other dealerships and i don't know the conditions that they were involved with.

We had a 9560sts that we are unsure on what caught things on fire...insurance company said that it was from the rear spreader hydraulic motor getting hot with lots of chaff packed in tight....i think it was prolly static electricity. The day it burned it was super dry, about 95 out and a 30 mile an hour wind out. Burnt about 250-300 acres, a house and took all afternoon to get undercontol

Anyway, the first thing that i would do, is locate exactly where the fire is coming from. I think twitter is right when he said that you might get sparks out of a straight pipe, but it might be more relivent to gas than diesel engines. With a straight pipe your engine should run cooler.

 

[Don Boles]

I can see why you'd want another Deere.
One just can't give up that sort of productivity.

Don

 

[zambeziriver]

Hi to all out there.

I have an old Case 2144 and a 9660STS. Call me stupid but am getting another JD. Have to get new 9570 as the supply is short for 9670. My problem is this, my combine cathces fire the minute it gets a bit dry in chickpeas, sunflowers and even sorghum. I land up having to blow the engine compartment out every tank otherwise I have fire.I am talking 10 fires a day at least. JD dealers say it is too dry, however my competition with a 2388 case was going along quite happily for three days without blowing his machine once. Have asked the John deere guys what is the moisture cut off point for the machine they get full of excuses. I am not here to fight but to try and solve this issue . Bot machines are full of dust,both with thirty foot heads doing the same speed, so same amount of material. The only difference 9660 has big muffler, Case straight thru pipe. I can only deduct the back pressure from the muffler just makes the turbo hotter and this ignites whatever dust touches the turbo. I want to remove the muffler and put straight thru pipe, no noise issues here in Africa. What is the consequences to engine and performance, runaway turbos etc? Need some techinical info here, will turbo run cooler? Already have new airscoop, just reduces dust levels but does not stop fires. Radiator also cleaned everyday so engine is not running hot or straining.
I contract harvest and cut when the farmers want me to cut. We do not have driers and so have to wait for the wettest part of the field to be dry enough to cut and store. Therefore the driest part of the fields are already quite dry.

I look forward to hearing from similar sufferers and their experiences and any suggestions are very welcome.

Zambeziriver, deepest darkest Africa

 

[deerefever]

We have had very little fire issues with our sts machines, one area that has been a concern is the tier 2 , exhaust manifold shield, not so much the shield but what is under it. If you lift the shield you will find a type of insulation, it seems with heavy loads on engine the insulation will heat up and smolder, and along with a windy day ,plus the cooling fan it is very possible to get repeat fires, we first found this on a 2003 9650, but it would cover most machines 2002 and newer with 6081 h.p.c.r. or tier2 engine. Also our standard procedure for all 50-60-70 series is to install a ground chain from the rear axle to disipate static buildup, caused by the poly-corn gull wing doors. hope this will help your fire issue.

 

[zambeziriver]

Thanks Deerefever
Been there with the static chains. Even put set alternator brushes on rotating screen with earth wire but alas. The fires start from a small amount of dust the collects in a spot on the turbo or manifold or muffler. This burning ember gets blown off and then sets somewhere else alight. The Case has no noise compenstion my old 2144 as with the newer 2388, made in brazil models. The other point I forgot to mention yesterday the turbo in the john deere sits with the air intake side facing the cooling fan/ radiator side. The case machines all have their turbos with the exhaust side of the turbo facing the cooling fan. Just drops the temp a few more degrees. We have tried harvesting at night starting at three in the morning when the temperature is coolest and rel. humidity at its highest. We have been harvesting in temps of around 36 c to 38c with low rel humidity. In wheat however, we have irrigated winter wheat that dries off in October, the onset of our summer, and temperatures are in excess of 40 celsius. No problems, the dust just does not stick like that of sorghum, chickpeas or sunflowers, I guess the oil content is different. I had such a bad fire , it got under the engine bottom covers, that sit just above the fuel tank. That whole area underneath was alight and it burnt three holes in the fuel tank. Mother job to remove and repair. I have not seen a new 70 series but the tech guy has assured me there are major mods to the whole engine/air and exhaust set up.
Look forward to hearing more.

 

[jono]

turbo should prevent most sparks from being and issue.

Jono

 

[jono]

turbo should prevent most sparks from being and issue.

Jono

 

[bent]

If you saved a combine from a fire that melted holes in the fuel tank you deserve a commendation. I would have been 50 feet away, on the phone to the fire department, insurance agent, and the dealer. But I'm not sure in which order.

 

[Don Boles]

Quote:If you saved a combine from a fire that melted holes in the fuel tank you deserve a commendation. I would have been 50 feet away, on the phone to the fire department, insurance agent, and the dealer. But I'm not sure in which order.
He'd get my vote to. I'd be doing what you said Bent.
Hey wait a minute.
I did!
In 06 I had so many fires doing peas if there'd been no threat of a field fire this would be the order:
Dealer, insurance agent, fire department... someday.
Could be hard on the insurance claim though.
Your results may vary.

Don

 

[procutter]

Do you have chopper or a spreader on the combine?

I had a neighbor that was cutting across the road from us in 2003 with a 9750STS with a spreader on the back. He was stopping all the time for small fires. We had the same combine with the chopper on it and had no trouble.

I have put lots of sunflower acres through a STS combine with the integrated chopper and we had three miner fire experience. We blow the combine every night or morning. Alot depends on how dry it is.

Mike

 

[Don Boles]

zambeziriver
Just so you know our fires look like they have unrelated causes.
In my case it was rear of rotor/discharge beater area.
Apparently material wasn't feeding properly between those two components at low rotor speeds. 4 paddles have since replaced tines at the back of the rotor which appears to solve the issue. But then we didn't run in the same conditions again, 32, 10% humidity.
So it's a different issue for you. Good Luck with it.
I did change one thing though you didn't.

Don

 

[Tom Turner]

Zambeziriver
Welcome to the Combine Talk Forums
Have you keep the engine hoods open, the back engine lading open or the unloading auger out to get the dust out fast, maybe add a defector on the turbo. Putting on a straight pipe is ok don't think it will make any problems. Thinking about some other things that can you can do, don't know what the 70 engine compartment looks like, but well after the 5 we have sold at this store come in, of the six stores there will be 34 new combines sold.

 

[zambeziriver]

Hi Don

Conditions are a bit different in Africa , I operate in two different countries., Botswana and Zambia. Insurance agencies do not pay, nearest dealer more than 600kms away. What are they gonna do? Fire departments do not exist so a man gotta do what a man gotta do.
The JD franchise in Zambia works under JD southern Africa. Therefore the big bosses sit in an office in South Africa, this is two countries apart from Zambia. Not one rep from jd came when I sent out distress calls. Only the tech guy from Zambia has helped. I must commend his efforts but he gets nowhere fast because it all has to go thru bosses in S.A.
When I get it fighured out I will post some pictures. MAkes for interesting viewing.

 

[Don Boles]

Quote:Hi Don

Conditions are a bit different in Africa , I operate in two different countries., Botswana and Zambia. Insurance agencies do not pay, nearest dealer more than 600kms away. What are they gonna do? Fire departments do not exist so a man gotta do what a man gotta do.
The JD franchise in Zambia works under JD southern Africa. Therefore the big bosses sit in an office in South Africa, this is two countries apart from Zambia. Not one rep from jd came when I sent out distress calls. Only the tech guy from Zambia has helped. I must commend his efforts but he gets nowhere fast because it all has to go thru bosses in S.A.
When I get it fighured out I will post some pictures. MAkes for interesting viewing.

Hi zambeziriver
I doubt anyone on this forum runs in that kind of business isolation.
You've given me a greater appreciation of your situation.
Must really take that pioneering spirit to operate like that.
I salute you and again wish you the very best of luck!

Don

 

[davedan]

Your turbo will be fine with straight pipe, in fact it will be happier without muffler seeing how youll have almost a 200 degree difference in exhaust gas temperature with a straight pipe, the pipe wont be as hot as a muffler either. Many peices of other deere equipment come without mufflers. I am deleting the mufflers on all three deere harvesters this season to help the egts.

 

[twolunger]

I am willing to bet that theis machines that are having a fire problem all have straw spreaders on them. I have several customers that have the same problem. The one thing that you can do to help the problem is to attach a chain to the frame of the combine. You cant just wrap it around the axel and drag it. You need to remove paint from the frame and bolt the chain to that spot, then attach an old guard to the end of the chain with a bolt. The guard will get through the trash and make good contact with the dirt. I know it sounds crazy but it helped my customers. Also you need to clean the dust out of the straw spreader drive tubes. I hope this helps.

 

[zambeziriver]

Thanks Davedan
You are the first guy who has any sort of facts that help. You need three ingredients for fire , oxygen,material (i.e dust) and heat . We cannot eliminate oxygen or the dust but if we can reduce the heat below a threshold then we can stop fires .Straight thrupipe will get exhaust gases out quicker and reduce heating up of metal parts. This will explain why the case 2388 machines in exactly the same field in the next row never ever caught fire as they have a straight thru pipe. The same operator also has an American built 2366( comes with muffler )and he does not let that machine into sunflowers coz of fiires he has had. I think this is the root of all my fires.

Thanks, Don, for the words of ecnouragement, believe you me , sometime you do need them.Yes this is Africa, but I have grown up here so am used to the conditions.

Yes, i do have spreaders and yes we had plenty fires in the tubes and everywhere else, even inside on the grain pan under back of rotor. I have tried the chains in many different arrangements. Sure it might reduce the amount of fine dust sticking everywhere but it is not the cause of the fires. I have also removed all the flutes or fins in the engine bay and this helps reduces build up of dust and allows access to put those small smouldering embers out. They seem totally unnecessary. I have only left the top cover on (where you walk on to get to the grain tank.)

It took me a while to find this site.While doing some research on draper heads and I phoned a farmer in South Africa who has got some honeybees and he suggested that I have a look on here.
Only one draper head in Zambia, JD 925D, what are they like ? I am buying this one to put on new 9570sts.

 

[Don Boles]

For some reason the head combine mechanic at the shop said that combines with spreaders cause more fires than those with a chopper. He said it has something to do with the housing & the hydraulic motors sitting on top with the hoses and the extra heat and the place for material to settle around causes a greater place to warm up than the chopper which has no motors to get warm and cause fires. This isn't scientific facts just presumptions, but in theory I agree with it.[/quote]
I can't see how a hydraulic system can ever get hot hot enough to start a fire.
My guess is that it has more to do with the different material and dust flow patterns created by the spreader.

Don

 

[zambeziriver]

The machines with spreaders that catch fire are seemingly started by the spreaders. I will put my experience on the block here. The fire starts at the turbo/exhaust manifold.The tiny ember gets blown down the left side of the machine because of the air chutes . There is a dead patch of air just behind the combine exactly where the hydraulic pumps for the spreaders are located. A lot of dust collects there because of this very reason. Therefore when you see the fire it seems to have started there. I can almost guarantee that all the fires are on the left side of those machines. If you can touch the hydraulic motors and hydraulic pipes with your hands ,and you can, there is no hope that the temperature there can start a fire. Sure if you keep your hand there it will hurt but it is not anywhere near hot enough to start a fire, let alone to boil water.

I have now cut out the muffler and welded the remainder of the exhaust together. Just have to cut a hole in the top enigne cover for the exhaust to stick thru. Not a big job at all. Also just have to shorten the dust extractor pipe a bit to fit new position . Also minor job. It seems that the exhaust gas coming out of there now is very hot. You cannot keep your hand close to the exhaust outlet at all. Litmus test to come later in season.
Will also cut a few dollars off cost of machine if they do not need muffler. Noise does not seem much different at all..