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Discussion Starter #1
Hello

Anyway after harvest we send in our mustard sample into Vittera. They graded it a number 3 with 8% dockage or something. The stuff was very clean but we figured maybe shrunk kernals or something. We don't grow a lot of it.



Hauled a couple of loads of Mustard into Moose Jaw. It graded like they graded it. Number 3 with 8%, so they increase the dockage some more to get it to a number 1. (this is common I'm told) Our two loads were 13% dockage and 11% dockage. So be it, guess that's what it is. Few days later I start comparing my sample to a few other guys who have Mustard and there sample looks like mine but there dockage is only 4-5%.

Anyway send my sample into the Canadian Grain commission and it comes back as a number 1, with 4.6 dockage:hits-the-fan:

So nothing like getting bent over for 5k a load in lost revenue. My fault I know. From know on were sending all mustard to be graded by CC and never using Vittera again. Lessoned learned.
 

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I have talked to lots of guys that get screwed by viterra one would think that if its just one terminal doing it maybe its the manager at the elevator but if its all over ... maybe company policy.... one would think sooner or later it would catch up with them...
 

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Think they need to rewrite the grading specs on mustard. It's graded like no one has a grain cleaner. There is a lot better grain cleaners now then there was in the 50's
 

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Wow, hard weekend on Viterra.
Sounds like they deserve it. You have a right to watch them do a dockage test and show you what they get. It would be advisable to know ahead of time what sieves are to be used so you can make sure they are using the correct ones. When UGG bought out Agricore, I disagreed with the the direction management was going with the company. Under UGG's management, I felt that the company started to view farmers as something to be mined. Extract all you can from them. I refused to operate that way and had several run ins with management. I finally had enough and refused to work for an outfit that treated their customers like cash cows so after almost 25 years, I quit to go spraying. I've heard that it's much worse now and judging by what we are hearing here, it just might be. Sad.
 

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Hello

Anyway after harvest we send in our mustard sample into Vittera. They graded it a number 3 with 8% dockage or something. The stuff was very clean but we figured maybe shrunk kernals or something. We don't grow a lot of it.



Hauled a couple of loads of Mustard into Moose Jaw. It graded like they graded it. Number 3 with 8%, so they increase the dockage some more to get it to a number 1. (this is common I'm told) Our two loads were 13% dockage and 11% dockage. So be it, guess that's what it is. Few days later I start comparing my sample to a few other guys who have Mustard and there sample looks like mine but there dockage is only 4-5%.

Anyway send my sample into the Canadian Grain commission and it comes back as a number 1, with 4.6 dockage


So nothing like getting bent over for 5k a load in lost revenue. My fault I know. From know on were sending all mustard to be graded by CC and never using Vittera again. Lessoned learned.
Since all grain compaines keep samples could you get them to send the sample to cgc and get graded?
 

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The last load of canola I took to Viterra I was surprised how much dock-age was in the bottom pan so I asked the grader which screen he was using he said .045. When I asked why he was using that one and not the .040 the CGC has in the guide, he said the screens wear tolerance allows it to be used until it is .045, so they use .045 and replace it often!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Since all grain compaines keep samples could you get them to send the sample to cgc and get graded?
Thought about it. but we already took a settlement. Our fault, from know on all mustard samples goes into cgc before shipped. Also we booked next years contract with a diff company. Live and learn sadly
 

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Wow, hard weekend on Viterra.
Just watching the pit prices and I have to say there was a definite shift in competitiveness since the last merger/acquisition. I used to ship there fairly regular but now they are threatening to boot me off their web page because it's been so long. For me it's extra trucking so unless the incentive is there, I'm not hauling.

I actually had a strange experience with the CGC this fall. I sent them samples of my soybeans when we did the harvest survey and they came back graded "sample" for what they called "unnatural color". No dessicating or late spraying, but they were swathed, and it wasn't green, the green count was good. I delivered a load to Delmar and they didn't see a problem at all... #2 all the way. I even told them about the CGC and they just shook their heads. Have to say it was a new one on me, I'd never heard that about soys before.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
But on the bright side the fishing was really good, 103 pounds of fish brought back, 60 tuna and 43 wahoo

Sorry if pics are upside down or side ways, cant figure out how to make them normal
 

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Thought about it. but we already took a settlement. Our fault, from know on all mustard samples goes into cgc before shipped. Also we booked next years contract with a diff company. Live and learn sadly[/QUOTE
Vittera might take some dockage but no worries of getting paid or screwing you out of a contract if they paid to high. There is a couple buyers out there that I wouldn't deal with again. Sending samples to CGC good idea.
 

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The last load of canola I took to Viterra I was surprised how much dock-age was in the bottom pan so I asked the grader which screen he was using he said .045. When I asked why he was using that one and not the .040 the CGC has in the guide, he said the screens wear tolerance allows it to be used until it is .045, so they use .045 and replace it often!!!!
25 years in the business buying grain and I've NEVER heard that before. I cal Bull$hit.
 

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This is the reason i stopped growing flax, viterra seams to own that market and the rape a guy on dockage. I hauled to 3 places on year and two of them were in 4-5 range and viterra was over 11. Not cool
 

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The last load of canola I took to Viterra I was surprised how much dock-age was in the bottom pan so I asked the grader which screen he was using he said .045. When I asked why he was using that one and not the .040 the CGC has in the guide, he said the screens wear tolerance allows it to be used until it is .045, so they use .045 and replace it often!!!!
25 years in the business buying grain and I've NEVER heard that before. I cal Bull$hit.
If those are stainless steel wires in them screens it will take those a looooong time to wear out. Used to work at a food flavoring company that made dry powders, we ran sifter screens till they got a hole in them and the cause was never thinning wires, always something involving human activity or abuse that put a hole in them. Some of those screens ran for 2-5 years, 5 days a week, 24 hrs. a day (minus washes, when they were then drenched with caustic and acidic cleaning agents) and the wires looked the same on the last day as they did the first. Sometimes had a pile of large tailings chunks bouncing around on them for hours on end. Long story short it seems you got smoke blown up your tailpipe.
 

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If those are stainless steel wires in them screens it will take those a looooong time to wear out.
It's worse than that, they are perforated steel, steel sheet with round holes perforated in it. Pretty much impossible to "wear out" I would think. Like I said, was a grain buyer for 25 years and never heard of wear on a dockage sieve. I would report them to the CGC.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Did you get your 100 pound tuna you were looking for?

Nope, the big guy was just under 70 pounds, hehe not sure I would have made it with a 100 pounder, that was 70 min battle, stand up in 28C heat. I almost puked once it was in the boat. After two days I had all the meat I wanted so we went after cow tuna (200-300 pound) and Marlin.

Hooked into a 380-400 pound Blue Marlin but sadly after a 20 min fight the fish broke the leader. Only regret there is no pic(
 

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Nope, the big guy was just under 70 pounds, hehe not sure I would have made it with a 100 pounder, that was 70 min battle, stand up in 28C heat. I almost puked once it was in the boat. After two days I had all the meat I wanted so we went after cow tuna (200-300 pound) and Marlin.

Hooked into a 380-400 pound Blue Marlin but sadly after a 20 min fight the fish broke the leader. Only regret there is no pic(

That would have been something. Hopefully we will go out within the next 2 weeks and hunt some yellow fin tuna. Just waiting for good weather.
 

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This example isn't involving the same crop but the potential is there for the same result for any seed commodity, and it was a different company.

In the spring the farm where I do the planting had sold a large wheat contract to coincide with a train loading right in the middle of seeding. This was the largest contract that the delivery point had ever handled and had been a tough negotiation on price slides and fusarium levels. The samples saved from filling bins in the fall seemed to indicate all would be fine and the wheat would actually fetch some money.

As the owner monitored the delivery tickets gathered from his trucks and drivers, it was obvious that the fuzz level was getting higher. Higher to the point that soon the owner would be paying the buyer, so he took a load himself and insisted on watching the grading process. In the sample tidying up process using screens, one screen ended up holding most of the fusarium kernels. What should have happened next was that all of the screens that were wheat including the diseased ones should have been combined in a container and then dropped through a spiral device that homogeneously re-blends the sample before doing a kernel count to establish fusarium percentage. (I cant remember what the spiral thing is called.)

That had not been happening, they were putting the good wheat on a tray then dumping the diseased tray on top of it and then grabbing a hand sample from that layered pile. This was the reason for the percentage inconsistencies.

Upon being taught how to properly grade the sample, the levels were consistent as expected and the contract was delivered on time. At least that's how he related it to me, but I'll bet there were some tense moments in that joint.
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I have been a grain buyer in the country elevator system, a CGC inspector, and a farmer, and it has always surprised me that many producers do not know what grade their grain is or even have any idea how that grade is assigned. They know to the hour when the last oil change was done on the tractor, but are taking the elevators word on what is keeping the farm afloat. Many times the elevator is correct and your grain really is that bad, but looking at these posts for the last few years about how badly the farmer is getting shafted, but don't do anything about it or don't even realize that they are getting the shaft. I know everyone on here has internet access, so not being able to get the needed information is BS, it just takes some time and reading to know how things are to be done. Then spending the time to watch the grading being done and catch the mistakes when they happen.
I can say I have never personally on purpose put the boots to a delivery. That is not to say that I didn't deal with guys that deserved it, usually they complained that their bad grain was better than it is. 2 situations on the top of my head, farmer delivers canola that is high in green count, graded #2 CAN for this. Next load he comes in with yellow tint safety glasses and tells us to regrade with these on. Sure, no problem. Regrade ans Sample ACC'T Admixture, we were not counting the cleavers in the sample. Mr Farmer pretty quickly changed his tone here. Other time Mr Farmer complained about oat grading, so I got the CGC guide out, showed him how to grade oats, and low and behold, I was giving him a bonus for lightweight, grading them higher than I had to.
 
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