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So i had a couple rounds of hail on most of my fields, i seldom have ever had hail so it was kind of out of the ordinary.
Ive got a question though, on my canola, they counted and came up with roughly 50% damage. I agreed with all their counts, they seemed fair (ex farmer, not a schoolteacher)
When i went to sign off they bring out this chart, he asked how many days flower, and i said around 5. Then he says we will only give 12% damage. He claimed all the companies use this chart and thats just how it is. It seemed kinda like i got screwed, but i signed it.
Now im thinking, did they pull a fast one? Or is this how it works?
Like i said i hardly ever get hail, and i dont think ive ever in my 28yr career gotten hail on canola so i felt inexperienced.
This is more or less the chart they used.
 

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If you agreed to the 50%, sorry it’s a “verbal” agreement they have to honour it. If you signed and they signed they have a leg to stand on. Insurance is the BIGGEST SCAM going.
 

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If you agreed to the 50%, sorry it’s a “verbal” agreement they have to honour it. If you signed and they signed they have a leg to stand on. Insurance is the BIGGEST SCAM going.
Yes, i realize I don't have a leg to stand on, but i'm wondering if this "chart" is common practice on Canola? I'm just trying to learn for next time.
They claimed all companies use it, i'm just trying to find out if they lied about that.
 

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hail

Never seen a chart before, but I have learned alot from veteran hail adjusters an one thing that stuck with me was if the main stem is cut off that is more yield gone than a side branch cut off, of course it depends on how high the cut off was compared to undamaged plants. Line company or Afsc?
 

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Bah had mustard field get hammered years ago. It was in full bloom. Called the line company. They took a look and said get us out on Sept 1. Did not matter that it was pretty much toast. They would not adjust it then. The one dumb **** of an adjuster said we don’t want to write your crop off and hear
You combined a 20 bu crop later. Had 3 more storms come through that field. If it grew back a flower that counted.

What a joke
 

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Have never seen or heard of a chart like that, sounds a little "screwy" to me. The damage should be the damage, black and white. Hail insurance has been the only insurance I have ever been happy with. Had some canola hailed on a few years ago in later bloom, had a good adjuster that explained to me how they come up with their numbers, can't recall how they they did it now, but there was never an adjustment for the timing of the plant. Even though you signed it, I believe you still have the right for a re-adjustment if you aren't happy. We did that with some oats the same year as the canola was hailed, signed off on the first adjustment, then when we got into it with the combine could see it was worse, called them back and they looked it over and gave another 20-25% damage.



Good luck, sorry about the hail.
 

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Try to get good records going forward... your yield vs area average etc. Unless you are tearing it up, that's really the only way to get a sense of what you lost. Might be worth the time to bring in an independent weigh wagon, bin it separate, etc. I got caught on the signing off argument once (not hail, just regular crop insurance) and I won't sign off again until I know the final yields.
 

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Yes, i realize I don't have a leg to stand on, but i'm wondering if this "chart" is common practice on Canola? I'm just trying to learn for next time.
They claimed all companies use it, i'm just trying to find out if they lied about that.
What I’m saying is if they gave you 50%, you agreed to it’s a done deal. How can they bring out that chart when they first said it was 50%?
 

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What I’m saying is if they gave you 50%, you agreed to it’s a done deal. How can they bring out that chart when they first said it was 50%?
It was after the counts, he was filling in the form, and he says basically, because it was 50% damage and only 5 days into flowering this here chart says actual yield loss will only be 12%. I questioned him on it, but he replied that it was a standard chart that all hail companies use. I was naive i suppose and signed off.
Company was rain and hail
 

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It was after the counts, he was filling in the form, and he says basically, because it was 50% damage and only 5 days into flowering this here chart says actual yield loss will only be 12%. I questioned him on it, but he replied that it was a standard chart that all hail companies use. I was naive i suppose and signed off.
Company was rain and hail
That’s beyond dirty!!! And they werent teachers either.
That’s a learning lesson for us now, make sure and have the number of days is a real high number.
We should print that chart off.
Like I said insurance is a scam.
 

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So i had a couple rounds of hail on most of my fields, i seldom have ever had hail so it was kind of out of the ordinary.
Ive got a question though, on my canola, they counted and came up with roughly 50% damage. I agreed with all their counts, they seemed fair (ex farmer, not a schoolteacher)
When i went to sign off they bring out this chart, he asked how many days flower, and i said around 5. Then he says we will only give 12% damage. He claimed all the companies use this chart and thats just how it is. It seemed kinda like i got screwed, but i signed it.
Now im thinking, did they pull a fast one? Or is this how it works?
Like i said i hardly ever get hail, and i dont think ive ever in my 28yr career gotten hail on canola so i felt inexperienced.
This is more or less the chart they used.
Never be afraid to ask for a different adjuster and don't sign if you think your short changed. I worked for MASC back in 2002 as a summer job to add a little extra cash for the farm, and I can tell you first hand that the principles used to evaluate crop damage are severely wrong. In one case I adjusted a soybean field at the end of July which was a 100 acres of just sticks not a leaf left. I knew it was a write off, the farmer knew it was a write off so I wrote up the claim according. WOW, when that claim hit the MASC office ,boy did sheit hit the fan, First thing my supervisor said to me is why didn't you defer the damage. Defer what , I said! If it did some how grow back, it would have for sure of froze out in November. All I am saying is take a step back and consider the common sense. The people coming out to your fields are often people who have very limited agriculture training , and a poor decision can cost you thousands. I couldn't stand the bs at crop insurance and I quit promptly. Least I made sure, that the farmer got what he paid for......Hail Insurance!
 

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seems odd, usually they either defer when it is early flower till a later period, or they count damage and as mentioned earlier there is a greater amount given to main stem damage than a side branch. One of many reasons i gave up carrying hail insurance was the hassle it was kind of like the lottery on the adjuster you get, yes you can fight it but it all takes time and is a hassle. I will say this last year I had what I thought was 25-50% hail damage in some of my canola at early to mid flower, I sprayed it the next day, and it still ended up yielding very very well, canola has a great ability to compensate early in flower, but as for the chart I had numerous hail claims in the past some as recent as 4 years ago on canola I believe and I never saw any adjuster pull out a chart like that, and as I mentioned I have had hail a number of times in the past on canola and had multiple companies adjust.
 

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AFSC does the same thing. Can't remember now exactly how it worked but we had canola hailed on in flower. They came with a percentage of what was defoliated 20-30%, cant remember now. It came out to 6% damage. They also wait 3 weeks before coming out on purpose to see what survives. That same crop got hailed on couple weeks later and after adjusting another 3 weeks later was upped to 60% damage. We still combined a good crop off of it that year. Everyone else in our area who had same hail damage did as well so I think they are even more stingey now with payouts. Last year I heard guys south of us had to wait until crop was in the bin before they would settle the hail damage.
 

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I don’t sign off for at least a few weeks after hail event. Takes awhile for the bruises branches and main stems to develop rot and break over or break off. Final count is always worse at least 3 weeks after. Disease also is more prevalent in damaged plants which can affect final yield.
 

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Disease also is more prevalent in damaged plants which can affect final yield.

What they would respond to that, and in a way I agree with them, is they provide HAIL insurance, anything else caused after the fact is not their responsibility. The yield loss due to disease would then be to to the crop insurer to cover.
 

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I don’t sign off for at least a few weeks after hail event. Takes awhile for the bruises branches and main stems to develop rot and break over or break off. Final count is always worse at least 3 weeks after. Disease also is more prevalent in damaged plants which can affect final yield.
Well when we had hail damage few years ago we had afsc and neighbor had henderson hail. Neighbors had same variety canola seeded across the road from our one field and seeded within a couple days of each other. Henderson hail sent an adjuster four days after the hail, seen all the broken branches and gave him 41%. When afsc came out 3 weeks later they showed how even if the broken branch was hanging on by a thread to the main plant it was still growing. We got 26% on that particular field. I complained of how the neighbor got a higher claim and we went in his field and he came up with 26% as well. After we combined the crop off I had nothing to complain about and now I see why they are careful with payouts.
 

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The first sheet you sign when you meet him is normally a sheet saying he came out looked at you and called you, then after he does his count they look at a chart based on growth stage and adjust from there.

i also had hail and the adjuster was very fair and called them his cheat sheets, his count was 60 percent but again based off the chart it didn't make 10 because of the growth stage. Also had soybeans hit and I somewhat challenge him on that saying I was concerned that they would be set back and freeze out he put something in the comments and then I signed so if the crop freezes I give them a call to come and re adjust

He did mention on the canola that after harvest if my yield is way out to give the insurance company a call.

My experience with canola and hail as long as you have moisture it comes back and still makes a crop.
 

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It's my understanding that hail insurance is insurance against yield loss due to hail damage. That being the case, why would either side (insurance company or customer) settle before harvest when the actual yield loss can actually be calculated??. To settle before harvest is is going by guess or by golly.
 

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In this area hail is as much of the cropping process as what other inputs you put on or put them on with. The timing of the storm is almost as important as differences in seeding date and it may be that the time the hail is adjusted after the storm is quite important as well. I treat hail insurance like any other input and if did not see a return on it over the longer term would not put it on - I put on extra most years. Hail adjusters are just people doing a job - probably not even like police with tkt quotas at beginning/end of month - so they really are not trying to "pay less". I think it is normal for people to try and deal with people they "like" and this is not an option with your adjuster, but if you can recognize what sort of a person they are, their schedule, and have enough information it is easier to manage their numbers and adjustment. Maybe it is different in other areas, but typically there at least 3 wk window between storm and adjustment around here so lots of time to do your own adjustment/gather info. Even though I have not seen chart pulled out from this example it is like anything where there is always some facts that can be pulled out that justify a person's opinion/measurement - you just need to have enough facts to be able to argue your case.

This would be my checklist on hail:
Access - to do proper adjustment adjuster would prefer to get to at least each corner of quarter section and the simpler you make this the better adjustment you are going to get. Of course having easier access makes it easier to do your own "pre-adjustment" as well.

Multiple opinions/adjustments - I always try to know what neighboring land has been adjusted at and/or have 2 different insurance companies involved. Again the more information you have likely the more "accurate" adjustment you likely will get.

Make time for adjuster - Like any other input I want to see the value that I am paying for so I want to be with them for entire process.

Pick your arguments - I think some people try to be argumentative with adjuster, but if you know your land/storm event you should be able to pick the battles that support your cause. Depending on your insurance/coverage, deferring the adjustment should be your last resort.

I am still "hoping" for the right storm around here, but typically LH July forward is "best" time and this just happens to coincide with my birthday.
 
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