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One thing I know for sure is. If you keep your shop too cool you can create frost by the foundation that can rot or rust out the building.
I know this by experience. My brother was heating his garage. It was cold out tho. And the frost was coming out of the foundation and sweating. He had his sheeting over lapping the footing and it was creating black mould. He was heating the garage at +5 turn it up to +15 everything dried up.
He also said it was cheeper to heat at 15 than 5.
 

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Whoever tells you floor heat is slow to recover must have a poor system installed and whoever tells you a floor heated shop is too warm to work in must have heat set way higher then 16 C or be pumping way too warm of water around. I can park frozen ice cubed Super B in shop and boiler will stop running within a hour. And yes it might take a day to melt all the ice out of trailer frame rails but shop is back at 16 deg within 10-15mins of shutting doors.
 

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Whoever tells you floor heat is slow to recover must have a poor system installed and whoever tells you a floor heated shop is too warm to work in must have heat set way higher then 16 C or be pumping way too warm of water around. I can park frozen ice cubed Super B in shop and boiler will stop running within a hour. And yes it might take a day to melt all the ice out of trailer frame rails but shop is back at 16 deg within 10-15mins of shutting doors.
It all depends what size of a door your using. If I opened up my 16x16 door it will recover easily in 15 minutes. Most of the traffic is set up to go thru the small door. My 40x20 door might take 2 hours to recover, when I start to open the big door it sucks the air in as I start to lift it. Cycle time would be close to a minute to lift and put down, so a minute and half brings a lot of cold air in. We don’t use the big one often but when we do it takes a while to recover depending on how cold it is outside.
 

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In floor heat is nice when working under stuff and it seems to thaw stuff underneath equipment nicely. I like the radiant heaters how it feels on you from above. Forced air is cheap and easy. I think the key to any of them is sized big enough. If you are opening a big door often you probably want to up size
 

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Discussion Starter #45
For the guys that have radiant heaters how noisy are they? I assume they are quieter than a forced air heater. Boiler heat is probably the most quiet. Does anyone know what the efficiency is of radiant heat?
 

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Torriem do you know how much the radiant heaters cost a piece.
So the quote for a 30' radiant heater (approx 100,000 BTU) is about $2200, not including installation and gas fitting. Pretty reasonable. I would think radiant is cheaper to install than forced air for larger sizes.

Probably if cost is no object, a combination of in-floor, radiant, and forced air would cover all the bases.

As for noise, our radiants are very quiet. Sometimes the units vibrate a bit for whatever reason, perhaps from the heat expanding the tube and turbulence in the exhaust. They are not as quiet as a boiler, which could be as close to silent as it gets. No idea about efficiency. A google search says all kinds of contradictory things.
 

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I have geothermal floor heat in my shop. Recovery time is 5-10 min when I open the big door in the winter. This is a bifold door that also sucks air in when opening and is slow to open/close. Bifolds are the worst as well as when they are only open 1 foot at the bottom, the middle of the door is 4~5 feet from the wall - so lots of cold air comes in vs a overhead door that is opened the same 1'.

Initial cost for the system was high vs gas/etc., but the cost per day to run has more than eaten up the initial price difference, and it is quiet during operation. My shop is a farm building and the big door may only open a couple times/week - usually weekends when I need to plow snow or work on my sleds. Otherwise everything in the shop like combine and tractors never leave until spring.
 

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My recovery time with door open is best I know of. Anyone saying it's slow and needs forced air to recover seems strange. I did see this once in a shop but only 50% of the guys floor was heated. It was a shop that was added on too. You could tell which wasn't heated in floor instantly. It was like walking into the cooler at costco. Just a wall of cooler feel instantly. Just a couple 3 degrees but you could tell instantly. When I built my house the protocol was having the lines close together. I have mine a foot apart and it is great. In my system I don't have pure heated water heating the floor. The mix is with 50% of the floors return and hot water from boiler. I have a valve restriction ever so slightly that allows a constant blend of a very small amount of hot water being mixed into the floor when the floor pump isn't even on. My circulating pump that runs continuos flow back to the boiler loses a very small amount into the floor continually. So much expense created with all the extra line put in the floor. Putting each loop 2 ft apart with a seperate loop in between will help in the future if you did ever have a line failure. That way the floor will still have a loop heating that area should one fail. I used Kitec which I don't see being used lately but that stuff was wicked tough.
 

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Discussion Starter #52
Has anyone installed in floor anchors in their cement floor for straightening equipment? I was also wondering if anyone has put in a jib crane and if so how you anchored it and fabricated it?
 

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We put some anchors in our floor. About 4’ of railroad iron, cut hole to mount clevis, welded rebar to it and floor guys tied rebar to it. Plastic cover for it.
 

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Same here. Used them quite a few times straightening stuff. The biggest thing was a log trailer we flipped over when one side broke through the ice. Used them to set up jigs as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
Bjtjjl can you post or text me a picture of your anchors? Does each anchor have 4 ft of railroad iron attached to it? Is there any chance you would crack the concrete when pulling on them? Is the railroad iron bellow the cement or in the cement? Thank you for mentioning this.
 

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I've more less got the same thing as Joe and Bj except I used I beam and welded 2 7/8 drill stem to them and made a few diff threaded anchor set up for it. I also habe 2 jib cranes in the shop 12 in 1/2 wall pipe in the ground 12 ft and cemented in place and and anchored to the wall up top they have a 20 ft reach there suppose to be good for 2200 lbs at at 20ft. They where engineered for a local oil field shop that never installed so I bought them. The one has a elec hoist on it the other just a manual chain hoist. The other thing that I would consider is a little stand on forklift. Bought k e last winter and wouldn't be with out it now.
 

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Discussion Starter #58
As far as insulating the floor has anyone just insulated the perimeter on the outrside of the shop rather than insulating the entire floor? I think I was reading somewhere where guys would lay down a layer of styverfoam just outside the grade beam angling down into the ground but have never heard anyone doing this.. For you guys that have used radiant heat did you put any insulation under the cement pad inside the shop?
 

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6Our RM shop used 4’ styrofoam grade beam forms and insulated the perimeter with 2’ sheets of styrofoam horizontally on top of footing to prevent frost from getting under footing. This is not a replacement for foam under your cement floor, I would strongly advise you to put 2” high density foa under your slab. Some people are cheaping out and putting some sort of bubble wrap under slab but I don’t think it’s a good replacement for foam.
 

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Make sure you put foam under whole slab. You do not want to pump heat into the ground all winter which will happen without insulation. And use at least 4inchs on outside against footings.

Make sure your water loops are no longer then 250ft and that all runs are within 10% of each other. Also space loops no farther then 12in apart and put a extra run 6inchs from walls since that will be highest heat loss.
 
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