[X80]

I'm struggling to find any information or guides as to how much UAN or Urea needs to be applied for tillering in wheat? Due to some dramas at seeding 1 block needs to be around the 3-4 per plant..this block has high soil N and got 140kg/ha of MAP - plus some left over UAN applied pre seeding. I have soil tests for this block as well...so to ensure sufficient tillering do i have enough?

My other block i want it to tiller like crazy - it got 80kg/ha of DAP...will get a copper zinc spray at 5 leaf and then i budgeted on dosing with UAN to try and get some decent tillering.

Forrest tends to tiller very well..if it doesn't have to many plants around it - it tends to tiller really well?

A guide would be handy so some forward planing could be done...

Any suggestions or experience?

Ant...

 

[sneeky]

just replied in the other thread Ant, sorry can't be of much help. I would only be guessing. The only thing I could say is that wheat does not require a large amount of N until just before Z30. If you gave it half of what you thought your total N requirement was then I would imagine that would be heaps.

 

[madsnake]

There are n calculators about like yield pops I think it is. Never used it my self but the farming system group I do trials for do on trials I have for them. It factors in rain fall, sub soil, soil test ext and gives a yield out come at different amounts of in crop rain for year and applied n. My n calculator is much simpler, is it rain, what's the crop like, how much is urea, how much is wheat, what's the budget like and gut fell of the year.

Madsnake

 

[X80]

Yep i have more N calculators than i can remember ....thats to grow x amount of tonnes @ x protein etc...I don't know if that relates to utilizing N to manipulate or control tillering activity?

Ant..

 

[Auscocky]

My n calculator is much simpler, is it rain, what's the crop like, how much is urea, how much is wheat, what's the budget like and gut fell of the year.

Madsnake

Spot on Snake. There are so many variables in farming. Some years you do everything by the book and it turns to ****e, other years you scratch it in on a wing and a prayer and you fluke a decent crop.
Ant, maybe do a trial. Fertilise some and see what the difference is like in the end.

 

[X80]

My farm is slowly turning into the csiro!!! I have a faba bean trial... i believe a first for the Portland area...16 pasture's for in crop cover crops...and now it looks like N rates for tillering affect...should i go 5,10 & 15 or 10,20 & 30 L/ha UAN?...plus i can post my soil test results for some sort of cross reference...wont be able to do yield ...just simple tiller counts and maybe head size...i need a research assistant...preferably some hot chic...

Ant...

 

[madsnake]

Spot on Snake. There are so many variables in farming. Some years you do everything by the book and it turns to ****e, other years you scratch it in on a wing and a prayer and you fluke a decent crop.
Ant, maybe do a trial. Fertilise some and see what the difference is like in the end.

Un fortunately buy the book dose not have to pay the bills, and if the book plan don't work it gets spendy.

Madsnake

 

[madsnake]

My farm is slowly turning into the csiro!!! I have a faba bean trial... i believe a first for the Portland area...16 pasture's for in crop cover crops...and now it looks like N rates for tillering affect...should i go 5,10 & 15 or 10,20 & 30 L/ha UAN?...plus i can post my soil test results for some sort of cross reference...wont be able to do yield ...just simple tiller counts and maybe head size...i need a research assistant...preferably some hot chic...

Ant...

Any n trials I have done always big rate changes like 0, 50 and 100kg urea strips.

 

[X80]

Yep but its unviable for tillering affect - i have a fair whack of N budget in ground on one block and the one with DAP i budget on a winter time dose as i want to grow lots of leaf with forrest...at 100kg thats $70 / ha spread or sprayed..., so maybe go 10 - 30 and 50? for a wider range - it could at least stay econmically viable?

Ant...

 

[trev]

In my experience with the wheat varieties I grow (scout, yitpi, correll) it'll only ever chuck on 3 or 4 tillers if it has adequate n. You can starve it and get less, hard to get more, additional n seems to go into setting head size. Different varieties, different environment, who knows? Barley, completely different story.

 

[X80]

I did have some pics of Forrest wheat plants with 9 heads....some with more...only in spots where they weren't surrounded by other plants...if in thick rows it was 3-4......

I believe variety probably is a big factor...Bolac i found in trials didnt tiller overly well or just didnt handle the wet as well as forrest or lincoln..??

Ant...

 

[smythricky]

In my experience with the wheat varieties I grow (scout, yitpi, correll) it'll only ever chuck on 3 or 4 tillers if it has adequate n. You can starve it and get less, hard to get more, additional n seems to go into setting head size. Different varieties, different environment, who knows? Barley, completely different story.

I was getting up to 6 tillers on correll last season. Sandy loam soil with 50kg map and 35 l/ha uan. Shame we had a dry pinch in September which burnt off 60% of every head.

Richard

 

[X80]

Richard was the UAN in furrow at seeding or applied later ?

Ant...

 

[snides007]

Any n trials I have done always big rate changes like 0, 50 and 100kg urea strips.

I agree with snake here. If you start trying to compare 5 10 rate changes you would struggle see variation in a green house. Maybe try 25 50 75.
Also don't forget if have cloudy week or 2 u won't see much response until the plants get sunlight to convert the nitrate to nitrite. (Think that's right or other way)

I just seen some people freak out last few years round here wondering what's wrong with crops even after heaps of urea thrown on them after cloudy couple of weeks. Add sunny few days and bang off she goes.
Funny how dif advisers have diff opinions on soil /leaf tests as how much different nutrient and trace elements availability varies according to current conditions ie temp , moisture availability or logging.

 

[snides007]

But in saying that X80 I'm loving following ur cropping trials etc down there. Keep it up. Thought I was the only clown with more trials and experiments than the csiro

 

[X80]

OK...whats UAN worth a litre at the moment? i will go a wide range but at $1.00 per litre who is going to spend $75/ha??!!!! And can you fan on low rates instead of dripper nozzles or spray bars etc? or burn still to risky?

Ant...

 

[smythricky]

Richard was the UAN in furrow at seeding or applied later ?

Ant...

Applied later at about 4-5 leaf. Have been thinking about something at seeding but there's enough to do at seeding without messing about with something else.

Richard

 

[trev]

I was getting up to 6 tillers on correll last season. Sandy loam soil with 50kg map and 35 l/ha uan. Shame we had a dry pinch in September which burnt off 60% of every head.

Richard

Righto. What sowing rate or plants/m2? What rotation?

 

[madsnake]

If you are looking for a starting point, I would keep it very simple, 0, a rate and then twice a rate. Really need a 0 and a n rich strip to see what happens then fill in the middle.

Madsnake

 

[X80]

Got it MS ..cheers...I have agro coming out Monday week for crop inspection and population count ...general chin wag and strategy discussion etc...will see if we can't try and calculate using soil test the rate we think will do well then will go a big step below and a big step above and a zero....my aim is to have between 750-1000 heads a sq m...I'm think my population average will be around 250 or less so it only needs minor bump. My block at toolondo needs a major bump but that is by design not seeding issues etc...

Thanks everyone for the insight...invaluable as usual...cheers.

Ant...