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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We recently bought a Magnum 315, our first purchase into this newer series of tractors for us.

We intend to use this tractor with our 1250 corn planter.

My concern is that CNH is ok with their hydraulic oil temperature to be held around 220°F!!!

Is this not insane? Our local hydraulic shop (who is a very reputable shop) was shocked when I asked them. They recommend to keep oil at 130 - 150 °F. At 220 oil has 15% life expectancy!?!?!

And my CNH dealer says this is okay and within CNH specs.

Any thoughts, recommendations, or experience with this would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well from what I understand even though the tractor has the high flow pump (59 gpm) only 22 gpm ever flows through the oil cooler. This seems to be by design. So when we are using approximately 50 gpm to run the hydraulics on our planter and air cart the tractors oil cooler is not designed to keep up!?

The oil stabilizes at 220 °F.

I am hoping someone out there has an answer or idea I could try?

My dealership has no answer.
 

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Well from what I understand even though the tractor has the high flow pump (59 gpm) only 22 gpm ever flows through the oil cooler. This seems to be by design. So when we are using approximately 50 gpm to run the hydraulics on our planter and air cart the tractors oil cooler is not designed to keep up!?

The oil stabilizes at 220 °F.

I am hoping someone out there has an answer or idea I could try?

My dealership has no answer.
My experience has been that that the hydraulic couplers, hoses and fittings are all too small on a lot of the new ag equipment. 50 gallon/min is a huge flow and needs at least 1" couplers and hose to not have very high restriction which is where the heat comes from. Oil cooling is not fixing the problem, just masking it. I added a 31 gpm pump on a tractor and had a dedicated 1" system to run a fan and I could hold my hand on the fittings at the end of the day. That was only a NH/FC 380 variable rate cart and had all 1" hose so some of these newer extreme high oil flow drills need big plumbing. Is there some way to plumb a pressure/flow compensating valve off the pump ahead of the stock valve and run a completely separate 1" valve and breakaway system? I see it all the time in equipment yards, 1" hose on a drill setup with 1/2" couplers. Can't work well. 1/2" system is only designed for 15 gpm. You can double that for short time use but continuous use like a seeder fan and the heat just builds.
 

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A little off topic, but I have noticed some new planters are using steel tubing outside of the frame members. One company admits it is for added cooling. I have felt tractors did not have enough hydraulic capacity for modern planters for many years. I have a Magnum 225 CVT that I pull a 16 row planter with. It has power beyond connectors that I think are 1", don't know for sure what size they are. I have never seen an implement that connects to them. I have a pto hydraulic pump for some of the functions on my planter.

Do you have an infrared temperature gun? Might help to find where the heat is being generated. 220 degF sounds too hot for Hytran. I don't think it should be over 180-200.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Now that I think of it you are right. I had seen some newer Furniture is using steel tubing as well. As for the heat source we had temperature probes on the oil temperature coming out of the coupler at the back of the tractor as well as the oil temperature entering the hydraulic oil cooler up front by the rad and the oil temperature coming out of the oil cooler up front by the rad.

After 4 hrs the temperatures stabilized.

Oil going out of the Pioneer coupler - 208°F
SCV 1 & 2 - 15 GPM each @ 2100 PSI (through flowrater)
Oil cooler inlet temp - 200°F
Oil cooler flow - 18 gal/min
Oil cooler outlet temp - 162°F
Transmission oil resivour temp - 221°F

The flow through the cooler maximum is 20 GPM +/- at full engine RPM

Its simply not enough cooling capacity.
161744
 

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Very good data. It seems odd to me that the temperature of the reservoir (221) is higher than the SCV outlet (208). This is showing a temperature drop from the reservoir through the pump and SCV valves. Usually pumps and valves increase the temperature. I am not familiar with the plumbing of these tractors, but the cooler should be on the return side I think. I was also interested in the temperature of the oil returning from the implement. That would show if there is a severe restriction behind the tractor(large temp rise).
 

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Some years ago this was talked about on this forum as per trying to use a method to cool the oil and there were some setups pictured which used an oil cooler close to the fan inlet for the air cart. I assume like others that there is probably a combination of things going on, lack of cooling capacity at the radiator as it can't handle that much heat being rejected due to typical engine with air to air cooler and the engines radiator and would require far larger radiators for all systems to put it into its happy place. But also that wonder about restrictions, be it on the seeding tool side but also the poor use of the small coupler setup typical on tractors with no dedicated large coupler to feed and to have a very low restriction return connection. But the cooler idea might be one avenue to investigate beyond trying change the system on the tractor if possible and increase diameters of any bottlenecks on the seed tool.
 

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Now that I think of it you are right. I had seen some newer Furniture is using steel tubing as well. As for the heat source we had temperature probes on the oil temperature coming out of the coupler at the back of the tractor as well as the oil temperature entering the hydraulic oil cooler up front by the rad and the oil temperature coming out of the oil cooler up front by the rad.

After 4 hrs the temperatures stabilized.

Oil going out of the Pioneer coupler - 208°F
SCV 1 & 2 - 15 GPM each @ 2100 PSI (through flowrater)
Oil cooler inlet temp - 200°F
Oil cooler flow - 18 gal/min
Oil cooler outlet temp - 162°F
Transmission oil resivour temp - 221°F

The flow through the cooler maximum is 20 GPM +/- at full engine RPM

Its simply not enough cooling capacity.
View attachment 161744
The fact that the hottest temp is just after the couplers that supply the cart and fans says the heat must be generated in the pump. If the restriction in the supply side coupler requires the pump to generate very high pressure in order to get enough gpm to maintain fan speed, that is where the heat is coming from. It is evident that the output from the oil cooler is doing it's job but heat generated by the pump is reheating the system. The oil is even 8 degrees cooler coming back from the fan as it enters the cooler than when it leaves the pump and coupler.
I haven't seen it stated what size couplers are on the outlets at the tractor. I have bypassed the quick couplers by using a swivel coupler to try and reduce the restriction and increase flow to see what happens. It has made a big difference in temp and flow when I had a coupler unscrew internally and not open the two balls fully. Worth a try.
 

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Very good data. It seems odd to me that the temperature of the reservoir (221) is higher than the SCV outlet (208). This is showing a temperature drop from the reservoir through the pump and SCV valves. Usually pumps and valves increase the temperature. I am not familiar with the plumbing of these tractors, but the cooler should be on the return side I think. I was also interested in the temperature of the oil returning from the implement. That would show if there is a severe restriction behind the tractor(large temp rise).
Could some oil be going over system relief directly to reservoir from the pump as the pump tries to maintain flow to the fan? If the couplers are causing a restriction the pump will keep increasing pressure to try and maintain gpm setting to fan. That would explain why the reservoir is hottest??? Again check couplers.
 

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A little off topic, but I have noticed some new planters are using steel tubing outside of the frame members. One company admits it is for added cooling. I have felt tractors did not have enough hydraulic capacity for modern planters for many years. I have a Magnum 225 CVT that I pull a 16 row planter with. It has power beyond connectors that I think are 1", don't know for sure what size they are. I have never seen an implement that connects to them. I have a pto hydraulic pump for some of the functions on my planter.

Do you have an infrared temperature gun? Might help to find where the heat is being generated. 220 degF sounds too hot for Hytran. I don't think it should be over 180-200.
If those magnums have 1" power beyond then that would be a possibility to plumb an extra 1" valve off there and run separate larger hoses and couplers to supply the fans.
 
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