[treatylinefarms]

the Communist engineer at John Deere who designed the 9000 series for A, putting the rotary screen countershaft in the 4.5 inches between the grain bin and the radiator, and b, for making such a chinsy design. A couple monkeys could have made something stronger.

So heres to you, Mr. Prick, I hope you have a nice day sitting in your office playing with your ACAD thinking up new items that are impossible to fix, because you sure F'ed up my day.

 

[montana]

Re: I'd like to take a minute to personally thank.

This reminds me of when my new Father in law came to se me on my farm I told him to make sure not to tell any of the neibors that he was a engineer because to a farmer that was a curse word.....he thought I was wacked until one day he helped me work on my old grain drill shortly there after I heard him say words that I had not ever heard him say before of since.... well hope you get here fixed

 

[jd9600guru]

Re: I'd like to take a minute to personally thank.

Treaty, thank goodness they broke the mold after you came along.

 

[csfi]

Re: I'd like to take a minute to personally thank.

HAHA, no seriously I HATE engineers, they should be MADE to change every belt, chain, bearing, shaft, you name it before they are allowed to release a "new" design onto the market. So your not alone in your distaste for engineers.


CSFI

 

[factoryfarmer]

Re: I'd like to take a minute to personally thank.

HAHA how about all of the cheap brackets of the first sts combines that brake. Like someone acutally thought that would be heavy enough.

-Dave

 

[davedan]

Re: I'd like to take a minute to personally thank.

This was a problem in the walkers too, My fix on my 50 walker which has I think the same one peice bracket that the STS has with two bearings. I bought two square four bolt cast AMI housings, greasable, with larger bearing inserts than factory and ran grease lines up to an easy location. Larger bearing should last longer, especially with my NLGI 2 squeezed in every couple days. The housings are just the right size to bolt up to the face of the factory bracket, just drill the holes. I could post pics if anybody is interested.

 

[tbone95]

Re: I'd like to take a minute to personally thank.

As an engineer, all I can say is thank you very much! You could spend a little time and think where you'd be without engineers, even with the problems left behind.

As a farmer who does a great deal of my own fixin', all I can say is I can't agree more. Some of the stuff you have to get at, or all the stuff you have to take off to get at is just ridiculous. And then the cheapness / flimsy aspect just makes you sick.

As a realist who lives both worlds, it's easy to see how it happens. Stuff is often designed to be put together, but taking it apart in a different sequence is sometimes hard to allow for. And the cheapness thing? That's worldwide economy and competition for you. Can you imagine how much stuff would cost if everything was built to last like in the 50's and 60's? I wonder what it would cost to build a venerable old tractor like a 4020 or 806 or something like that in today's dollars?

 

[greentech]

Re: I'd like to take a minute to personally thank.

I replaced a set of bearings on one of those shafts the other day. Took maybe an hour. Not sure what the big deal is...

 

[csfi]

Re: I'd like to take a minute to personally thank.

As an engineer, all I can say is thank you very much! You could spend a little time and think where you'd be without engineers, even with the problems left behind.

As a farmer who does a great deal of my own fixin', all I can say is I can't agree more. Some of the stuff you have to get at, or all the stuff you have to take off to get at is just ridiculous. And then the cheapness / flimsy aspect just makes you sick.

As a realist who lives both worlds, it's easy to see how it happens. Stuff is often designed to be put together, but taking it apart in a different sequence is sometimes hard to allow for. And the cheapness thing? That's worldwide economy and competition for you. Can you imagine how much stuff would cost if everything was built to last like in the 50's and 60's? I wonder what it would cost to build a venerable old tractor like a 4020 or 806 or something like that in today's dollars?

You bring up a good point, you can't cuss the engineer without cussing the accountant that tells him he has to design it within THIS amount of money. Please don't take my comments personally, you obviously understand where I'm coming from.

 

[tbone95]

Re: I'd like to take a minute to personally thank.

No worries, I'm with you. It does suck to work on something that's made to last, and then the boss (usually a bean counter) says "Great, now make it cheaper." The other thing is, I also spent some time working at a university in an engineering department, and my how things have changed. I truly believe you can get a M.S. in mechanical engineering and never make a proper manufacturing print, and never pick up so much as a crescent wrench.

All that said, most ag equipment and other things truly are modern marvels. If they could just be built with some longevity!

 

[nbc]

Re: I'd like to take a minute to personally thank.

Things do last today, but you have to remember that the 4020 ran over a 400 acre farm and got about 100-200 hours a year. The new stuff is running over 2000-3000 acres and getting about 300-400 hours a year. So it just seems not to last. Heck there are guys putting 600-900 hours a year on there machines. Think about a 5000 hour tractor, you still think of a 40 or 50 series and not a new 20 series.
The only thing that cause more problems are the electronics, but the old ones didn't have those.

 

[tbone95]

Re: I'd like to take a minute to personally thank.

I pretty much agree. And for sure about the electronics. Thing is, even electronics can be made robust, problem free, and built to last but at a cost we wouldn't pay. Ever seen a commercial airliner or fighter plane? Very few problems for the number of hours logged.

I agree engines, powershift trannys, tires, stuff like that last an amazing amount of time for the hours and abuse they see, but it's the other stuff that drives you nuts, like plastic the gets brittle and breaks, lightweight brackets, unserviceable areas etc. Part of engineering is making things functional, part of it is making things economical, and the 2 must work together. It's not as easy as it sounds.

 

[pbutler]

Re: I'd like to take a minute to personally thank.

You gotta remember (and this is not pointed just at Deere)-how are they going to sell you a new combine every 5 years if they are good for 10 or 20 years? And if they did make a combine that would last 10 years with little problems doubtful many would buy it anymore because it would cost 3x as much as the competitors.

 

[combiness]

Re: I'd like to take a minute to personally thank.

I've seen plenty of this. Perhaps one of my best-known and first-hand experiences with such, were the first 2 years of te Gleaner L's. Total disasters! However, latently beefed-up machines have survived to this day, a living testament that the design itself, was solid.

I agree about the need for increased longevity.

 

[tbone95]

Re: I'd like to take a minute to personally thank.

Trouble is, what's left for the small guys like me to buy when the people buying new ones are done with them? But you are dead on. "Planned life cycle".

Not real impressed with the potential longevity of my JD 5303 tractor, built in India to cut costs, first brand new tractor on the farm in over 25 years, and fuel pump problems at 1100 hours.

 

[combiness]

Re: I'd like to take a minute to personally thank.

Tbone, what you just said, makes most sense, along with Pbutler's comments about all of this. It's true that we cover more not only just more ground, but also more acres per hour. So what? We only do this by virtue of our machines simply being bigger and stronger! This still should bear no excuse for not lasting as long as machines did, 30-40 years ago. The increased work load and productivity is all totally relative. Longevity is not; neither is the price we pay for this stuff.

Today, we can expect to pay anywhere from a quarter to half a MILLION dollars for just one combine. By all means, it should LAST like a near half-million dollar machine!

 

[tbone95]

Re: I'd like to take a minute to personally thank.

Exactly, Combiness. I was thinking of writing something like that. Just because we are covering more acres per hour shouldn't take years off the end. Along with price / cost, that is taking away from the bottom line as much as the productivity adds to it.

 

[combiness]

Re: I'd like to take a minute to personally thank.

Unfortunately, the cost nowadays, is nowhere near the relative level of today's increased productivity. Example given; just 30 years ago, an entire quad of Massey-Ferguson 760's was only about $240,000. That was an entire stock of combines for most custom harvesters, even back then.

Today, a SINGLE medium-sized combine will cost every bit of that. A topliner will go for at least another $100,000, with some makes and models, reaching just past the $400,000 mark.
That's where I'm arriving at close to half a million dollars!

That said, even though the old Massey-Ferguson 760 is long gone from production, there is NO WAY even a single currently world's largest combine can match any three, let alone four, [combined] 760's!

With reasonably good care, most 760's saw 4,000 to 6,000 hours of useful service. I know some that did not make it to 3,000, while a few others are still hanging on, past 9,000 hours. Much the same can be said for the John Deere 7700, a contemporary and as like-sized to the 760, as was possible, during their production.

 

[phishstik]

Re: I'd like to take a minute to personally thank.

Well then im in the 1%!! I would love a brand spanking new 7720 and I bet theres lots of other small farms and other countries that would buy'em up. Ill keep on dreaming though

 

[doorknob]

Re: I'd like to take a minute to personally thank.

I'm right there in line with my engineers eye poking stick, but ya haf'ta remember everyone is free to build their own. You're also free to make a small fortune coming up with a fix for the factories screw ups.

As to the cost to build a real machine today, well, if anyone here knows anything about the modern computer machining and fabrication abilities, the new machines are built for about half the cost of the 40 year old machines. The reason for the price today is called "marketing".