The Combine Forum banner
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
at wits end trying to figure out how to level the table on my ih4000. lifts over 6 inches on the wobble box side before the other side leaves the ground.i have bled the cylinder with the table up in the air but doesn't seem to help and I've tightened and loosed springs to no avail..... I have a come-along holding one side up so I can cut canola...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Do you have the right number of springs on? We used to switch tables for hay and had to take springs off for the 16 1/2 foot. For the 24 1/2 you should have 4 on the drivers side and 2 on the passenger side. We had a friend who put 4 springs on the passenger side and weights on the passenger end to make it balance with the wobble box. Awesome float on the 4000 when set up right, we always used the gauge wheels on the ends and ours always lifted even.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,661 Posts
I have a 19.5 ft table, and we had to put 4 springs on the driver side (left) but when i get to the end of the field i lift up the header right to the top and hold it to even it out. still sags once in awhile even with 4 springs.

Is this a new development or was it all ways there?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I just bought this swather at auction few months ago. its 19.5 feet with 3 springs on wobble side, 2 on the other. i.ve held the pedal at full throttle, table up and down and nothing changes. I've tightened the 2 springs on the low side right up and loosed the 3 on the other side but it doesn't seem to effect how crooked it sits....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
if I lift the table all the way up and hold it the table still sits crooked. doesn't slowly creep up on the low side of anything
 

·
Ken Adams
Joined
·
1,350 Posts
yak - This 4000 wouldn't be one of first ones (1978-1979) with two single acting lift cylinders?? Is the swath opening on header, offset to one side or is it centered (both canvas lengths the same)?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,541 Posts
Although we haven't used it much in the last many years we still own a IH 5000 as a backup unit and it has the 19.5 header. So I had a look at the spring count and its 3 on the left hand side, 2 on the right hand side. I know through the years the springs would sag a bit and have to adjust them up to get the header light at the front corners of the header and noted that the left hand ones have very little adjustment left but the right hand ones have many many inches of adjustment remaining in them. That just goes to show how much more weight there is because of wobble box, drive shaft, reel drive all being on the left hand side.

Then I took note of where the top pin of the hydraulic cylinders are as there is three holes for pin placements along the side of the upper arm where the top end of the ram fits. The ram uses the rear most hole position on both sides of the swather, and the solid bar lifting rod linkage uses the very forward one on both arms. Then down at the bottom of the main arms that attach to and lift the header, the lifting rods on ether side of the swather use the forward hole.

What I wonder is if the rams and the lifting rods on your unit is set up properly or if someone took something apart and accidentally put ether the end of a ram or the lifting rod in the wrong position so its not mirroring the pin positions on the other lifting arm assembly. That would certainly throw everything out of whack.

Finally, if that all looks good, do a measurement from pin to pin of each ram to be sure they are the same length and that something isn't going funky inside the rams or the portion that slides on the top of the ram to allow for the table to float off its stop ( uneven ground, hitting a rock etc ) . So its just a guess that ether its a cylinder problem or another mechanical issue with that float type linkage if you will on the rams, maybe one is seized or spacers got put inside of it and it got cocked in there and won't let it settle back down. I looked in the operators manual and I find it odd that it doesn't show the same ram setup we have with that float system, perhaps someone else can shed more light on it as its been so many years since I touched those rams.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
yak - This 4000 wouldn't be one of first ones (1978-1979) with two single acting lift cylinders?? Is the swath opening on header, offset to one side or is it centered (both canvas lengths the same)?
no I've got a master/slave cylinder set-up on this one
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Although we haven't used it much in the last many years we still own a IH 5000 as a backup unit and it has the 19.5 header. So I had a look at the spring count and its 3 on the left hand side, 2 on the right hand side. I know through the years the springs would sag a bit and have to adjust them up to get the header light at the front corners of the header and noted that the left hand ones have very little adjustment left but the right hand ones have many many inches of adjustment remaining in them. That just goes to show how much more weight there is because of wobble box, drive shaft, reel drive all being on the left hand side.

Then I took note of where the top pin of the hydraulic cylinders are as there is three holes for pin placements along the side of the upper arm where the top end of the ram fits. The ram uses the rear most hole position on both sides of the swather, and the solid bar lifting rod linkage uses the very forward one on both arms. Then down at the bottom of the main arms that attach to and lift the header, the lifting rods on ether side of the swather use the forward hole.

What I wonder is if the rams and the lifting rods on your unit is set up properly or if someone took something apart and accidentally put ether the end of a ram or the lifting rod in the wrong position so its not mirroring the pin positions on the other lifting arm assembly. That would certainly throw everything out of whack.

Finally, if that all looks good, do a measurement from pin to pin of each ram to be sure they are the same length and that something isn't going funky inside the rams or the portion that slides on the top of the ram to allow for the table to float off its stop ( uneven ground, hitting a rock etc ) . So its just a guess that ether its a cylinder problem or another mechanical issue with that float type linkage if you will on the rams, maybe one is seized or spacers got put inside of it and it got cocked in there and won't let it settle back down. I looked in the operators manual and I find it odd that it doesn't show the same ram setup we have with that float system, perhaps someone else can shed more light on it as its been so many years since I touched those rams.
my cylinders are in the back holes and the table lift arm pins are in the 2nd holes. I was thinking about ordering a manual but sometimes they don't have the info a guy wants...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
with the table all the way up its still uneven. I loosened the slaves bleeder screw and let some oil out(cylinder drops making it more uneven). hop back in the swather and hit the pedal to raise the table and the slave extends back to where it was before I bled it. I just wonder if somebody changed a cylinder and it has more/less stroke than original...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
165 Posts
I had the same problem when I bought my 5000. It is a 24.5 ft though. Right side was sagging, so I got underneath and there is a oil bleed on the left cylinder. I let oil out of this until it looked even on both sides, then hopped in the cab and voila....it lifted up even then.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
I have a 4000 as well and it does the same thing. Just manually lifting on the left side while someone operates the hydraulics to lift the header levels it out. I read in the manual that these headers come with an auto leveling feature if you keep trying to lift the header. So I'm thinking the left cylinder could have a leak inside or something. Causing that leveling feature to malfunction. I've also messed with the springs to no avail and checked the ram and cylinder positioning.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
Ive Had both a 4000 and a 5000
You are going about it the wrong way , You need to either find a ditch or a set of blocks , so you can lower the header all the way down without it touching anything. Be careful!!!! if using the ditch method. This will level your header. The springs should be 3 on left 2 on right. Springs are only used to creat some floatation, set bolts on each side to set how much float you want!!! Should be able to lift ends of header by hand 60lds??? The springs have nothing to do with the lifting of the header!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ma..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,541 Posts
I believe what Aldo meant was how to hook onto a header if it had previously been dropped off/disconnected from the swather tractor. I could be wrong on this as to be frank we never had a reason to drop the header off the machine so I am guessing that the header lift arms would have to be lifted all the way first to take tension off the springs, then disconnect the springs or perhaps the lift rod, then the single acting cylinders should sink down causing the lift arms to fall close to the ground for hooking up. Once that was accomplished along with the center turn buckle, then lift up with hydraulics and reconnect the springs ?. I am just taking a guess at this but am curious as to how it was meant to be accomplished since they are single acting cylinders.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Ive Had both a 4000 and a 5000
You are going about it the wrong way , You need to either find a ditch or a set of blocks , so you can lower the header all the way down without it touching anything. Be careful!!!! if using the ditch method. This will level your header. The springs should be 3 on left 2 on right. Springs are only used to creat some floatation, set bolts on each side to set how much float you want!!! Should be able to lift ends of header by hand 60lds??? The springs have nothing to do with the lifting of the header!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ma..
I will give this a try for sure, however I was under the impression that you were supposed to lift the header all the way up and it was to level itself?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
my 4000 swather hydraolics quit with no noise just quit. wont move or lift the header. is there a pin that could have gotten gotten sheared going into hydro unit? can this be an easy fix?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Bill E. I have the exact same problem. I started taking mine apart, there is a splined shaft driving the pumps, no pins, so that's not the problem. So we still need help! Thanks.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top