The Combine Forum banner
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I had a bin crew put some Westeel 8 ring, 19ft bins on hoppers in summer of 2020. First season of fills and empty’s went fine. They seemed fine when I filled them again this fall. I just emptied 3 of them last week and one made a sh!tload of noise, sounded like bolts were shearing off, and lots of creaking going on! Was kind of worrisome being around it!! Then I noticed sheets on the bin were almost inline with each other on bottom half of the bin. Bin guy come out today and said, they shouldn’t be like that, but it should be fine. He said the sounds were probably caused because the lid wasn’t opened, too airtight??? Looking in inspection hole, I could see maybe 1 bolt hole of daylight, while on the other 2 empty ones were definitely less airtight since I could see more daylight showing! Has anyone else had something like this happen? Do these look safe to any of you? 2 of the photos show the sheets being 1 bolt away from being inline and other photo shows what I think they should be like. I’m not a bin builder so I never even noticed until I heard it making noises! Advice would be appreciated..thanks!


Sky Composite material Shade Silo Gas
Shade Composite material Urban design Material property Engineering
Daytime Sky Azure Building Silo
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,119 Posts
Must have been the first bin your "bin guy" has ever seen if he thinks that was done right. MF cowboy has the right info, been that way ever since I was doing bins and that was 40 years ago.

There were some manufacturers that used extra heavy sheets instead of adding stiffners, Chief Westland is one i remember, but if those are Westeel Roscos then stiffners are standard part of the build.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,020 Posts
Sorry.
I dunno why the picture loaded twice.
But if you notice in the manual both the 197 and 198 bins are not recommended to be installed on hoppers.
Not saying it can't be done though.
Originally looks like 6 of the 2 piece stiffeners are used.
And for cone applications there should be a angle support either welded to the cone or bolted or tap screwed under each each stiffener to carry the load.
I'm trying to remember if the pea kit maybe doubled the number of stiffeners I can't be sure.
Found it. Link
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
520 Posts
We always add more stiffeners when putting on a hopper and bolt a angle bracket to the hopper under the stiffeners. Westell used to give e you them when with the hopper. I just build my own now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,119 Posts
I see they have new bolts in the 3rd tier so could be the stiffners are installed and bolted continuously in the 1st and 3rd tier. You need to look inside. What I am looking at is to my memory, additional stiffners were added in between the existing stiffners when mounting on a hopper. So that 2nd tier seam would be half way between the seam of the bottom tier. As MF notes and the instructions say, mounting an 8 tier bin on a hopper isn't approved. But I seem to recall adding the extra stiffner package on 5 and 6 tier bins to go on hoppers. It's been a few decades though.

That's not to say 8 tier on hopper can't be done. It would be up to whoever designed the hopper retrofit package to make necessary changes. But I would think you would stagger the 2nd tier to accommodate more stiffners. Also note the part numbers on the bins sheets of instructions, those are different because of increasing gauge thickness. So the thickness of the new sheets needs to be designed in to the package.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
151 Posts
As long as they have the heavy stiffeners bolted continuously on the 1st and 3rd rings up from the hopper it will be fine. Also need those angle brackets bolted or welded on the hopper under each stiffener.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
151 Posts
Looking closer it looks like they did the cheat method. They notched the stiffener on the bottom so it would fit over the cone then bolted it on the outside. We have some 6 ring Westeels done like that. Not sure I’d trust an 8 ring like that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Bottom two rings are the heavier 209 sheets, bins have 6 stiffeners that are in the proper places, it’s the sheets that are not lined up properly on ring 7 and 5 that are my concern! That is where the weakest part of the bin is! The bin guy admitted they were wrong and said he should have been onsite to make sure they were done properly, but he did see them after they were built…I’m sure if you are a bin builder the first thing you would look at is the sheet pattern to see if it’s correct! Thanks for diagrams MF!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
300 Posts
Bottom two rings are the heavier 209 sheets, bins have 6 stiffeners that are in the proper places, it’s the sheets that are not lined up properly on ring 7 and 5 that are my concern! That is where the weakest part of the bin is! The bin guy admitted they were wrong and said he should have been onsite to make sure they were done properly, but he did see them after they were built…I’m sure if you are a bin builder the first thing you would look at is the sheet pattern to see if it’s correct! Thanks for diagrams MF!
Just a hunch. Were these built by First Tier Contracting? They did some for me. I question the guy building them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts
I had a bin crew put some Westeel 8 ring, 19ft bins on hoppers in summer of 2020. First season of fills and empty’s went fine. They seemed fine when I filled them again this fall. I just emptied 3 of them last week and one made a sh!tload of noise, sounded like bolts were shearing off, and lots of creaking going on! Was kind of worrisome being around it!! Then I noticed sheets on the bin were almost inline with each other on bottom half of the bin. Bin guy come out today and said, they shouldn’t be like that, but it should be fine. He said the sounds were probably caused because the lid wasn’t opened, too airtight??? Looking in inspection hole, I could see maybe 1 bolt hole of daylight, while on the other 2 empty ones were definitely less airtight since I could see more daylight showing! Has anyone else had something like this happen? Do these look safe to any of you? 2 of the photos show the sheets being 1 bolt away from being inline and other photo shows what I think they should be like. I’m not a bin builder so I never even noticed until I heard it making noises! Advice would be appreciated..thanks!


View attachment 164217 View attachment 164219 View attachment 164220
Those look like harvest hoppers, you can put the bottom bolts in without going inside the bin ,, to me looks like they cut off the stiffeners a little to much and the bottom ring has collapsed down till the stiffer is sitting on the lip off the hopper ... We bought 2 this summer that looked worse and that was the trouble... added a extra ring overtop the crinkled ones and welded a extension {1/2] on the bottom of the stiffer and then it sat right on the hopper lip.. working great so far🤫
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,552 Posts
Where the stiffener bolts to the hopper I drill /ream them out and install 1/2" grade 8 bolts. Notched out to fit over the hopper. Ideally notched exactly so the weight is sitting on the notch. I often drill and add a couple of bolts through the stiffener into the 2nd row of sheets. Previously I have added more stiffeners between the existing 6. Built some this fall, and didn't.
Also make sure the stiffeners overlap by more than a bolt. If not, I drill more bolts, or weld them together.
I'm drying in the bins, from extreme moistures, so the stress on the stiffeners when the wet/ frozen grain shrinks down as it dries is very high. I've had more than a few bolts shear and buckled sheets on bins before I started doing the above.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,119 Posts
I see what you are saying Radar, looks like that very bottom corrugation in first and second pictures has collapsed a bit. Don't think it is just a reflection. Manufacturers would always show the sheet assembly with the seam centered on the sheet below it for whatever design reason. Allowances in seam positions were made to accommodate door or half sheets, but generally the seams were offset as much as possible. Additional stiffners can likely make up for some abnormal builds but bins over 6 tiers need more than a slap it together approach.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Just a hunch. Were these built by First Tier Contracting? They did some for me. I question the guy building them.
Does the sheet pattern on the ones they did for you look the same? I’m questioning him now also!
Had another guy the year before do 4 of the same and they were done correctly! I’m going to give him a call and get his opinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Those look like harvest hoppers, you can put the bottom bolts in without going inside the bin ,, to me looks like they cut off the stiffeners a little to much and the bottom ring has collapsed down till the stiffer is sitting on the lip off the hopper ... We bought 2 this summer that looked worse and that was the trouble... added a extra ring overtop the crinkled ones and welded a extension {1/2] on the bottom of the stiffer and then it sat right on the hopper lip.. working great so far🤫
Yes, they are harvest hoppers and the stiffeners were notched. There is a slight crinkle between stiffeners, that I associate with sheets not in correct spot. Sheets are strongest where they are bolted together, when bolt pattern is 1 bolt off for 4 sheets, I would think it’s even weaker between the stiffeners because sheets are almost in line.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
I bought a couple 195's off a landlord a few years ago, and got the extensions and seal form floors from westeel to make them into 198's. When I looked at the way they were put together originally i noticed that they weren't even close to sheet layout that our 195s built by dad and grandpa were. It was a rather significant undertaking to peel every ring off of every other ring and rotate to the proper location, but at least now as 198 bins, they are assembled the way they should be. With the amount of extra time that it took to pull all the bolts, replace all the rubber washers, split seams, rotate, and reassemble, I can imagine that alot of crews would think, "f*** it, it'll be fine!"

Those stiffeners have to line up, they have to be in the correct location, and they have to be properly supported! Quite impressive the number of "work-arounds" that I seen in my custom hauling days. Guys with 196-198 bins that just bought boring old angle iron and bolted them only on the ring joints, or guys that took two 194's and made them into 198's (the damage to bottom sheets can be impressive). Most of the work around's and cheap fixes ended up ruining the bins for future use. It's a shame, because a properly assembled yellow top westeel will last for generations!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,552 Posts
I wouldn't get too concerned about the bulge just above the hopper. I've found many of the hoppers are slightly smaller diameter, and the only way to get the bin to fit is to suck it into the hopper, leaving that slight crinkle and bulge. I've been adding washers or shims to avoid that.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top