[JPS]

Our 9860 STS 2006 model combine had a water pump bearing failure.
Is this a common issue with this motor? Was or is there any update to this stupid designed water pump? Having trouble justifying the $75000 quoted by dealers for a reman engine, when if we had been told to replace pump at 3000 hrs for $700. Does other JD 12.5l engines fit?
It used to be John Deere green for go. Our current fleet of John Deere equipment is very unreliable and is costing us a small fortune in repairs and the service from John Deere....well is at best poor. If anyone has any ideas that would be greatly appreciated. Cheers

 

[Andrew_D]

Was talking to our service manager about this subject this year. We send 1 combine in each year for a service/inspection. (We do the 2nd combine in our shop.) 9860 + 9870.

We are only 1400ish hours on the machines. Up front, he said that JD does not have any official guidelines on replacing water pumps or fan bearings. He said that in his experience, the water pumps tend to go between 2500-3000 hours. Some earlier, some later. He has had guys change them every 1000hrs and he has had guys ignore them entirely. Fan bearings last longer, but he always recommends to do the fan bearings while doing a water pump since the labour has already been spent to get into the front of the engine area.

In the end, we decided that when we pass the 2000hr mark, we will change them.

Our JD9400 4WD with 12.5L had a water pump replaced around 3600hrs. We caught it just as it went - got lucky!

Andrew

 

[JPS]

Thanks Andrew, our dealer when first notified of combine stopping responded " highly unlikely a water pump, never had any issues" after talking to other dealers, John Deere mechanics pretty common issue with 12.5 engine.
Thanks again.

 

[stevie]

Whats doing with the Murphys not catching this? A proper shut down system should not let engine grenade over a water pump failure. Or is it not overheating that's killing these engines?

 

[joesixpack]

X2 surely these combines and tractors are killing engines on water pump seals? I mean the Lexion on low water conditions screams bloody murder, same with a overheat.

Edit: Unless this coolant ends up in the crank case??

 

[phantom970]

I feel for you JPS.
It is a well known problem, but it seems only to ALL the poor suckers who have had the failure, and to JD themselves.

The whole stinking mess screams law suit to me but no one really wins there.

Your basically screwed. Unless something in your insurance will cover it. Or maybe when the water pump failed, it caused the machine to catch on fire, wink wink.

I have heard of many engine failures in OZ due to that water pump.

 

[chompy]

Edit: Unless this coolant ends up in the crank case??

From what I've read here, that's the problem.... that and all the bearings and bits of metal that fall into the crankcase

 

[JPS]

Engine doesn't overheat. Doesn't get a chance to.. Bearing fails on water pump, which is positioned above timing gears, bearing falls into timing gears etc, end result cracked head cracked block, destroyed every gear on front of motor. Great design.

 

[joesixpack]

Holy crap. Now I'm starting to grasp buddy's 200,000 maintenance bill on a pair - 3 STS combines.

 

[JPS]

Can anyone help? Why wouldn't any 12.5lt John Deere engine fit? We have all the bolt on bits to go in combine. Dealer here craps on about serial numbers need to match etc and tractor motors won't fit, when give them all the serial numbers they come up with some other number. They don't get paid by John Deere to think outside the square and are only interested in the $75k solution. Great service John Deere - thanks.

 

[712alberta]

You could really cheese off your Deer dealer and do something like swap in a C-13 cat. I'm sure you could get one for less than $75k. I suppose it would be a PITA to get all the electronics to work, it might get your dealer thinking outside the box if you start proposing 'radical' ideas. I'm not a Deer guy so I don't know what physical differences there are between the tractor and combine engines. I would imagine the ECM and the turbo? may be different, but I'm assuming that they don't have a different block. Some times these deer dealers a miserable to deal with, which is why I don't deal with them, unless its unavoidable.

 

[bsigg]

Might as well put a good engine in considering Deere's are junk. Get a cummins.

 

[sandfrmer]

I also had a water pump fail on a 9500. I was close to a water well and I ran a lot of water in the radiator before I knew what had made it get hot. I drained all of water and called my J.D. man. He told me to flush it with diesel fuel and run it with diesel and engine oil mix for a few about 15 seconds after I had installed a new water pump. I drained that mix and did that four times, changing the filter each time. I then I ran it with oil only for a short time, drained that over night. The next day I added new oil , filter and ran it about an hour in the field. I drained that out and more new oil and filter. The engine had 900 hrs. on it at the time. I am still running it a 2500 hrs. The J.D. house likes to sell me oil and filters!! I hope you can use this and save your engine.

 

[Haystack]

I thought there was also a factory remanufactured part # for that engine. It seems to me it came up on this site a few years ago?

 

[Grainline]

Ya I'm pretty sure there was a thread about this already. It's a common problem I've seen a few engine rebuilt because of this issue. I've replaced lots of pumps on tractors none on combines yet. New water pumps have a cage on them to keep the balls from the bearings falling into the timing gears.

 

[Corn Special]

They must of started running the pumps off the timing gear in the mid 80's? When they came out with the 50 series tractors. "Thought I read this somewhere." What was the advantage as compared to just simply running it off the belts? Something to do with a variable speed fan maybe??

 

[Andrew_D]

New water pumps have a cage on them to keep the balls from the bearings falling into the timing gears.

Well, it's good to hear that a newer pump is available that, at least tries to, fix the problem.

Engine doesn't overheat. Doesn't get a chance to.. Bearing fails on water pump, which is positioned above timing gears, bearing falls into timing gears etc, end result cracked head cracked block, destroyed every gear on front of motor. Great design.

Yup. Gear driven water pump. Stupid idea.

What exactly was wrong with a belt driven water pump anyway?

I'm surprised that nobody has come up with a way to place the water pump in the block, but instead of having a shaft come out the back of it with a seal that can fail, put the shaft out the front and come up with a way to belt drive it.

Andrew

 

[Andrew_D]

They must of started running the pumps off the timing gear in the mid 80's? When they came out with the 50 series tractors. "Thought I read this somewhere." What was the advantage as compared to just simply running it off the belts? Something to do with a variable speed fan maybe??

If it was run off of the crankshaft pulley, the pump speed would be directly tied to engine RPM. Same on the gear train.

Andrew

Edit: Regarding the 50's series question. I wasn't sure, so had a look at jdparts. 4250 shows both a belt driven and gear driven water pump. 4650/4850 shows gear driven. 8450 shows belt driven.

 

[joesixpack]

Cat's have had gear driven water pumps for ages but obviously when they fail they don't **** the bed when they do it.

 

[Corn Special]

So I'm confused. Never looked closely at a 50 series or newer design. But I'm assuming even with the gear driven pump there still must be a fan belt that would also turn the alternater of course. So does the fan run independently of the water pump off the belt, or is it driven off the water pump gear driven shaft? Just gonna take a wild guess but I had some literature around here at one time on the 50s, and I know they had increased fuel efficiency over the 40s. I remember somthing about a variable speed fan. So mabye running the fan independent of the pump was part of achieving the better efficiency. Any input anyone?