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Discussion Starter #1
I may have the opportunity to buy a 4430 incredibly cheap.......but.....

It's from an estate... what I know about it is that the gentleman that owned it was not mechanically inclined..... at all.
I understand it used 2, 6 volt batteries.... in which said gentleman installed 2, 12 volt batteries.
Also apparently the engine is seized because last time it ran.... it shut down with a clunk....

So take all that info with a grain of salt. I'm not offering much money due to how much is known [or, unknown] and how far I need to go to get it.

Question 1- what happens on these tractors if given 24v?
Question 2- these engines have any tendency of catastrophic failure?
[No rod has exited block]
 

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They where decent engine for there day other then hard starting. The cam driven oil pump gives trouble if started lots in winter. Ive only see a few that had bad failures. Mainly because of cam or oil pump gear striped off. Not sure about 24v what would happen burnt alt and probably gauges in the cab.
 

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I wouldn’t worry so much about electrical. If the engine seized that’s not good. The 404 was a reliable engine for it to seize indicates either a lot of hours or lack of maintenance
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I need to have a closer look at it.. I would imagine that 12v batteries were installed in the same configuration as if they were 6...
A lot is unknown at this time.
I just didn't know if there were any controllers in a tractor of that vintage... an alt and a few gauges I can desk with.
I dont even know the hours on it...
I read that they were hard starting usually because the valves begin to settle too deep in the seats lowering compression.
Did they typically have 1000/540 PTO??
Transmissions were tough?

Thanks.
 

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Yes always had both pto's quad range are pretty tough trans not the best shiftng but there decent when you get used to them. I got 10k hrs out our 4440 trans before we had to do the top shaft. Clutchs have never been touched dad bought it new 79.
 

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If they hooked them up is series then you would have 24 volt. If in parallel then you’d have 12 volts. As for the engine locking up it is probably the teeth on the cam gear have stripped that drive the oil pump. Common failure if not inspected regularly. You can take the tach drive off the side of the block and inspect the gear
 

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Discussion Starter #10
If they hooked them up is series then you would have 24 volt. If in parallel then you’d have 12 volts. As for the engine locking up it is probably the teeth on the cam gear have stripped that drive the oil pump. Common failure if not inspected regularly. You can take the tach drive off the side of the block and inspect the gear
Thanks for that tidbit... I'll check it next time I'm out there.

Is there a easy way to manually turn those engines over?
Pry bar through hole to ring gear or a BIG bolt on the front pulley that's easy to get a wrench or socket onto?
 

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I may have the opportunity to buy a 4430 incredibly cheap.......but.....

It's from an estate... what I know about it is that the gentleman that owned it was not mechanically inclined..... at all.
I understand it used 2, 6 volt batteries.... in which said gentleman installed 2, 12 volt batteries.
Also apparently the engine is seized because last time it ran.... it shut down with a clunk....

So take all that info with a grain of salt. I'm not offering much money due to how much is known [or, unknown] and how far I need to go to get it.

Question 1- what happens on these tractors if given 24v?
Question 2- these engines have any tendency of catastrophic failure?
[No rod has exited block]

If the tractor is given 24 volts, it will probably cook the dash gauges but it will start much better (more volts = more cranking speed).


As said, the oil pump drive strips off and oil pressure goes to zero - you get the picture.


I read that they were hard starting usually because the valves begin to settle too deep in the seats lowering compression.
Did they typically have 1000/540 PTO??

All that I have seen have both 540 and 1000 PTO. That being said, they did make them without PTO as well as with only 1000 RPM pto.


As for the starting, I have yet to find one specific reason that most 404's start bad and I have yet to find two 404's that start and run the same.



If the engine is just plain worn out, receding valves combined with a tired injection system will make it start bad - although I think the valve problem would mostly be from a previous overhaul and someone grinding the valves too far. It has been rumored (and I am starting to believe it) that Deere was not precise in their machining and decks heights vary from block to block.



Is there a easy way to manually turn those engines over?


Pipe wrench on the oil pump drive off the front of the engine - may have to take the frame girdle off (6 or 8 bolts) if it hasn't already been chucked.
 

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John Deere is a round piece with gear teeth that engage the flywheel. You can also use a bar on the flywheel teeth through the turning hole or the starter hole
 

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If was cranking it with 24 volt for very long I would wonder how the starter did? Did the starter blow apart and that is all that locked the engine? You can hope so.
 

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Figured as much... but the only one I have is for a 12 or 24 valve cummins.... how universal are they?

Not universal enough - the Cummins one won't work.


If was cranking it with 24 volt for very long I would wonder how the starter did? Did the starter blow apart and that is all that locked the engine? You can hope so.

I'm pretty sure they are just a basic 40MT starter - in which case they are rated up to 32 volts. Only thing over volting the starter would hurt is the solenoid.
 

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I'm pretty sure they are just a basic 40MT starter - in which case they are rated up to 32 volts. Only thing over volting the starter would hurt is the solenoid.

I wouldn't argue this much, I would not trust your statement either. I have flat out burnt up 12V starters putting 24V to them. Rather quickly. Last one was a 40MT starter this winter. I believe brushes and maybe even windings are a bit different depending on voltage rating. I could be all wrong. I would like to see these specs for up to 32 volts.
 
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