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Discussion Starter #1
Got to thinking, comparisons are often made on separating areas of machines, X has blah blah blah over Y.
But no one has ever talked about a machine that can on the go alter separating area.
Well, it’s your lucky day!

A Claas 8800 has 6 concaves and high speed (1250 rpm) rotors.
The front 4 grates can individually be closed, front to back.
From seat, switch or CEMOS automatically.
The open area % settings are
100
84
68
53
36

Or, the other way around, % increase from all four closed
100
145
190
235
280

Rotor cover grates have 9 open sections, no cover grates (the back 2) have 10 sections.

The influence higher speed rotors has is tougher to quantify but a halving of rotor loss on a change from 1000 to 1250 a decent swag..

Pic evidence of rotor cover effect
160840

For discussion purposes we are referring to the center blue two bars of the six bars.
Marked under with rotor and shoe these are the loss bars.
Note all 4 rotor covers are closed (upper part of pic) and the loss is relatively low and even.
For demo purpose and because the straw was so damp anyway I just kept the rotor at max 1250 no load.
Then... I opened all four rotor covers
160841

About 20 seconds later, enough time to stabilize.
Note rotor loss fell to almost zero and shoe loss skyrocketed as one would expect, real world conditions confirming fundamental understanding.

NOTE TO THE PEOPLE I WAS HARVESTING WITH!
THIS WAS ONLY A TEST LASTING ABOUT 25 SECONDS.

LOL

So forgive me, when someone talks about separation up X % I can not get excited when I can vary my separation area by 280% literally in 2 seconds.
And thereby balance losses to maximize capacity In all conditions.
 

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Wow! If ever a picture was worth a thousand words it would be this one! Greater nt post Don! It sure helps me understand how rotor covers are used and monitored. Makes a strong case for having on the go control of one more important funcion for efficient and high capacity threshing. I notice you are near EPL! How is harvest progressing there?

And I thought this was going to be a political thread!!??
 

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The 2 added functions to control presieve and vane position on 8250 over previous models sounds wonderful. To have a machine do it automatically and help teach you what can be done. Blows my mind a bit. I like where things are headed.
Now back to getting my old 8120 repaired to keep cutting in the morning. That part kind of worries me. More stuff to go wrong. They do still seem to get more acres cut in their life time as machines progress. Helps to prove computers can control things much more efficiently than we can over the long haul.
 

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That's a neat visual. Keep them coming. It would be interesting to see a third screenshot of when CEMOS is controlling the combine and how it would look.
 

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If I'm reading things properly ( no big shock if I'm not ) you're traveling .4 kph faster with approximately the same engine load . Is this just lighter crop or do the rotor covers consume that much extra power ?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
If I'm reading things properly ( no big shock if I'm not ) you're traveling .4 kph faster with approximately the same engine load . Is this just lighter crop or do the rotor covers consume that much extra power ?
Rotor covers have no discernible effect on power consumption.

We all know how variable even the evenest crop is but cruise pilot and automation really brings it out!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The truth is......


Don is CEMOS!
While, I over-road CEMOS but only for demonstration purposes.

Auto operation of all auto functions is much better this year (just wiser software) and the better Claas makes it the worse Don looks at setting.
I never even look at what cleaning is doing now, no way I can better it.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I notice you are near EPL! How is harvest progressing there?

And I thought this was going to be a political thread!!??
That never crossed my mind, title clarified.

Area about 1/3 done I’d say.

It seems the more functions I let auto run the tighter it will keep itself to EPL.
Last night I let auto run everything, ALL bars were lower than what my manual setting of threshing and separation was.

I beginning to think I’ll give up trying to beat CEMOS auto, lol.
 

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I didn't find such suitable wir da, basically thats what I wanted to say with "Damn, that Auto **** is really working"
I want to confirm that the 2020 models make a difference in regards of automatic function.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Surprised no one noticed some interesting things on those screens.
What, EPL and just 25 t/hr? Really?!
4 km/hr? What?! Certainly couldn’t use the extra 140 hp of the 8900!

Well, while well cured you could wash your hands with the damp straw, RH sky high.
There are the conditions where the separation of the new Claas with 6 concave staggered finger/high speed rotors can not be matched. No where close. ALL machines. Separation very difficult in such conditions.
And...like all fields so far this year this field had received hail although not the worst field by any means.

And...if you PM me a guess on what one other thing is you will get a precious gift, my congratulation!

PS
Hope to hit canola in a few days, will post all auto screen on that.
 

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I wont venture a guess, still trying to figure out what every thing is on screen.
However, this has been interesting to me to see all the different crops and settings required of a machine. My settings are much more simplistic as I only do corn and soybeans, but this thread has sparked some questions for me.

I bought a Lexion for high capacity with little rotor loss and longevity. I don't store grain at home anymore, take to elevator. So throughput is my biggest factor, don't want to send a bad sample to elevator, but if they don't dock me, throughput is my first priority grain sample secondary, so never thought CEMOS would be advantage for me. On corn, Lexion not too particular about settings, 350 to 400 on both APS and rotors, very little loss. One thing that is different from Deere is that with Deere, on downward slope, you can cram machine as full as you can and it will separate as corn stays in rotor longer and goes through sieves, but then definetly go slow uphill. With Lexion, after 30 years of Deere, my hand just goes foward on joystick when going downhill. However, with 740, when I get to bottom of hill and level off, the monitors go crazy and yellow out the back. Is this because shaker pans can't move corn back as compared to Deere with shoe augers having a more positve flow when traveling downhill? Are shaker pans building up with corn on downhill and then dump going uphill?? I can go uphill faster with 740, so that is just opposite of Deere. What is the dynamic? Also, in corn on the level, as you push capacity, there comes a time of overload where sieves just dump corn all of a sudden, not a progressive thing. Some people have said clean grain elevator can't take it so it backs up, or do the sieves just reach a point of overload? Never experienced so much on Deere as rotor loss would be the first point of overload.
 

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Good questions! First of all, what moisture and bph when you experience this? Have you confirmed the loss monitor spike is truth? Any picture of these hills you refer to?


I do believe the rotor and prep pans could be more aggressive than they are, to keep things moving better on uneven terrain.
 

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Also, are your prep pans clean...not built up with muck to where they don't propel the material rearward? Also, have you done a power shutdown when these issues arise. Lastly, what sieves are you running?
 

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Also, are your prep pans clean...not built up with muck to where they don't propel the material rearward? Also, have you done a power shutdown when these issues arise. Lastly, what sieves are you running?
I clean the pans at the end of season. They usually have some build up, not excessive. Never have done a power shut down, but when this overload happens, you can see the corn spray out the back in the mirrors. I usually have to come to a stop to get it cleared and the ground is yellow. I have the long tooth sieves. Usually run tops at 17 or more and open on bottom. In dryer corn under full power it can run 4500 bu/hr and higher up to 5000, that's when it can happen.

Often wondered if it's like running flour through a sieve, as long as material is flowing it goes through but add too much and it stops.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
It’s official.
I give up!
160870

No way a human can set it this good nor constantly watch and adjust as required.

Sprayed with roundup and heat 3 weeks ago.
Entire combine CEMOS auto set
EPL
30 t/hr
Front 4 rotor grates all fully covered
That stack on the grain pan is just shut down material shuffling down the rotor pan.
Clearly the shoe itself has minimal loading.

Oh, a touch of late season hail but minimal effect.

But you know, I’d say section 10 on the no cover rotor grates should be permanently covered as well, a slight center overload is still occurring. Hmm..

Here was the setup
Round bar APS closed concave
Round bar changeable main concave section (In since start of season for peas, have done peas, wheat, canola and barley, see no real need to change it so far)

CEMOS auto settings
No intensive threshing bar
Front main concave flap closed
450/17 mm cylinder
All 4 rotor covers closed
800 rotor
Shoe all over the map but 15/8/1000 common ballpark
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Don with the new rotor grates is the high speed rotors as big of improvement as they were previously?
Yes!
160871

Fresher than today’s headlines!

All auto run, CEMOS seems to like high speed and closed covers in this condition
However, when I first started this morning it kept all the rotor doors open and it was flooding the shoe so I manually closed and the next time I turned around and hit the automatic button it then goes back to automatic and it closes all the covers itself just like CEMOS thought, hey Don, that’s not a bad idea, don’t know if it’s that intuitive or not!
 
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