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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
through the last crop year weve taken on enough land that our old pull behind flexicoil sprayer isnt getting the job done anymore. just worn out and dont want to sink anymore money into the unit. been doing some research and started looking around at options in self propelled high clearance units. I had a dealership bring out a used apache AS1010 and it worked well for the 2 tanks i sprayed with it, i didnt commit to buying the unit since it had a few problems and dealership wanted too much. ive also been looking at a miller condor at another local dealership. not sure which brand is better here, looking for some more info from other producers. without a doubt i want to stay with mechanical drive units, i have no interest in hydro drive units.
 

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through the last crop year weve taken on enough land that our old pull behind flexicoil sprayer isnt getting the job done anymore. just worn out and dont want to sink anymore money into the unit. been doing some research and started looking around at options in self propelled high clearance units. I had a dealership bring out a used apache AS1010 and it worked well for the 2 tanks i sprayed with it, i didnt commit to buying the unit since it had a few problems and dealership wanted too much. ive also been looking at a miller condor at another local dealership. not sure which brand is better here, looking for some more info from other producers. without a doubt i want to stay with mechanical drive units, i have no interest in hydro drive units.
Huge mistake to rule out hydro. I suggest to buy the best Patriot you can afford.
 

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I bought a Sprayflex sprayer in the fall of 2014. It’s been good to me. It was a lot less $ than the high clearance at the time. It is only mid clearance, works fine to spray shorter crops. 1550 US Gal tank 120ft boom. It saves me a lot time. My neighbor has a smaller Apache for sale.
 
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Some of the truck converted to sprayers with tall row crop type tires might fit just what you are looking for. I had an older sprayflex and it was a great truck sprayer. Not as nice as my GC75 miller. 3x less money than I paid for the Miller.
 

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Capstan offers turn compensation for the regular aim command section controlled sprayers. Last I looked I think it was around $5k USD. Gonna be cheaper to get into a 20 or 30 series patriot then a 40 series. We went from a 90ft apache to a 4430. I would go into debt to keep running the patriot. Much nicer to run. I never liked spraying but don't mind doing it now.
 

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A hydraulic sprayer is fine. What brand you choose can determine reliability. How many acres will it be doing? Budget? You can end up spending way more than you need too in this implement category. A sprayer is one of the most overpriced pieces of machinery made. A sprayer carries water and puts it on uniformly with the aid of section control and the nozzle. Some ride better and have creature comforts. More hp for hills and larger tanks. It all boils down to what you need in your situation. A Spray Coupe can do a pile of acres in a day with more fills. I love my 854 Rogator. Rough but bullet proof. Not piles of power but the 5.9 cummins has more than enough for my hills. 800 gallon tank which is plenty for my operation. The big difference I find is the weight is balanced very well on these old rogators. You never cut a rut on the headland like a Deere. For yrs I watched Deere custom spray cutting ruts on the headlands with ease. So much weight with a Deere as well and most of it on the back wheels. Was it Apache somebody posted that you better wear your seat belt in when a front wheel comes off on the road lol? One of them has been noted for this failure anyway. Will it be stored indoors or outside? If outdoors then a stainless would be a better option. Sun will make your tank brittle after years outdoors. I have replaced mine once. I personally hate plastic booms. They kind of bend over time and your nozzles aren't uniform. I have stainless and my neighbor has the plastic. I will take mine any day over the plastic. Lack of service can make anything a piece of junk. Some are just junk no matter what you do. A guy here bought a Miller and had a wheel motor failure at low hrs. Then another shortly after that. Watching guys going full stick into a corner, then pulling back hard to stop, then backing in and hammering full stick forward to keep the boom pressure up instead of toggling a switch is just plain lazy and is destroying their machine. A goof ball operator can shorten the life of anything. Be wary!!
 

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If your budget is over 200k look at a big 4940 Deere. There’s a lot of value there for the price. They were designed to sling fertilizer at 20mph so loping around the field at 12 mph spraying is a simple walk in the park for them
 

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Captstan's turn compensation isn't all that useful in my opinion. Just doesn't work that well. It's very slow to detect that I'm turning around an obstacle. Half the time it's doing exactly the opposite of what it should because it missed the turn entirely. It has a built-in compass but I'm not sure it's doing anything. Relying on GPS to figure out the turn rate is always going to be slow. And when you're going straight it will pick up the slight oscillation and you rate will oscillate back and forth. So I leave it off most of the time. There are reasons you would add the capstan system to a sprayer, but turn compensation isn't one of them. I've heard Aim Command Flex does better here, as does John Deere's system.

We looked at a number of different options for upgrading our sprayer. In the end we went with the Patriot. Partly because there are so many of them in my area. Always used units available. We've been very happy with our 4430. When it's empty it's a bit rough, but overall it's a huge huge step up from a pull type. Any self-propelled is a major step up. Whatever you get you'll wonder how you did it with the pull type before. It's reasonable to expect to double your acres/hour.
 

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I’ll put in another vote for a patriot sprayer, as others have said buy the newest one your budget can afford. A 20 or 30 series would make a good starter, 120’ booms are nice and I would try to get a stainless steel tank instead of plastic. Myself I wouldn’t buy a sprayer without Aim Command but others swear at it.
 

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I went from having a couple System 65 Flexi-coil 800 gal and 1200gal 120ft sprayers to a CIH Patriot 4430.
It seems most guys eventually end up with a Patriot or Deere so you may as well just make the jump in one step.
Lots of 4410/4420/4430 sprayers around with 2000 to 3000 hrs that have not been abused.
Aim command is nice but on an older higher hour sprayer I would not pay extra for it.

On the 4410/4420/4430 CIH Patriots ask and check about suspension greasing and if/when the knee bushing were done. Cab and engine motor mounts, how often hyd oil and filters changed, hyd hoses, valve blocks and hyd pumps been worked on or rebuilt. Check the cab roof plastic as they are common for cracking. I have glued/epoxyed a few cracks on mine and may put on a new one sometime(hoping someone starts making quality aftermarket ones as it is same cab as Steiger/Nh 4wd tractors.
I sent mine through a Red Seal service inspection immediately after i bought it and it has run flawlessly the past 3 seasons.
I have the Viper Pro and it is simple and has so far had no issues.
Some simple repairs to the Aim Command so far but mostly solenoids or cleaning plastic shavings out of poppets (from spiking jugs in chemhandler).
If you have good salesmen that you know and trust ask if they have anyone wanting to trade that doesn't think the dealer is giving them enough and go look the machine over and see if you can make a deal with the farmer/owner.
Then he can deal with cash, and you will pay close to auction price instead of lot price.
This has worked for me an a couple items with big savings over dealer prices and getting a machine/equipment that isn't being "dumped" at a sale with big hidden issues.
I got a nice, well cared for, fully loaded machine at auction price and ones with less options are selling at sales now for up to $50k more.
 

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Drives me crazy how the Patriot roof cracks. Nearly every patriot sprayer I've ever looked at has cracks around the bolts. Do they just tighten them too much at the factory?

We also sent ours for a red seal service inspection. They replaced the suspension bushings, did a motor seal, and put a kit in the two main hydraulic pumps. Not cheap but should give us years of service yet. Save for an electrical issue caused by a damaged wiring harness, the machine has performed quite well after our third season with it. Sometimes I do swear at aim command pro, but I still wouldn't want to be without it or some other good PWM system. For one thing, self propelled spraying happens quite a bit faster and it can be more stressful at first getting yourself up to speed (figuratively and actually). PWM allows you the flexibility to slow down, or to accelerate more comfortably without losing pattern. Basically your nozzle size is going to be about double what it is with your pull type. The speed range without PWM is quite narrow (and fast).

If you do look at a Patriot, if you are not familiar with the pro 700, or don't like the pro 700, look for one with the Raven display. Personally I like the pro 700, but the Trimble Nav II autosteer is horrible. Terrible path planning, sometimes it misses my line entirely! Will be talking to the dealer expert this winter on what I can do to improve it.
 

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Apache makes a great small acre sprayer in my opinion. Probably not as nice to run as a hydro unit but comfort doesn't pay the bills. The wheels falling off isn't an issue on later 1010's and 1020's. Way less risk buying a used mechanical drive unit, could buy a whole lot of driveline parts for the cost of one or two wheel motors on a hydro rig. Plus you can get something with reasonable hours and decent capacity for +-150,000. Most patriots worth that much already have 2500 or 3000 hours on them. Like dookiller said, sprayers are way, way overpriced for what they're doing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
A hydraulic sprayer is fine. What brand you choose can determine reliability. How many acres will it be doing? Budget? You can end up spending way more than you need too in this implement category. A sprayer is one of the most overpriced pieces of machinery made. A sprayer carries water and puts it on uniformly with the aid of section control and the nozzle. Some ride better and have creature comforts. More hp for hills and larger tanks. It all boils down to what you need in your situation. A Spray Coupe can do a pile of acres in a day with more fills. I love my 854 Rogator. Rough but bullet proof. Not piles of power but the 5.9 cummins has more than enough for my hills. 800 gallon tank which is plenty for my operation. The big difference I find is the weight is balanced very well on these old rogators. You never cut a rut on the headland like a Deere. For yrs I watched Deere custom spray cutting ruts on the headlands with ease. So much weight with a Deere as well and most of it on the back wheels. Was it Apache somebody posted that you better wear your seat belt in when a front wheel comes off on the road lol? One of them has been noted for this failure anyway. Will it be stored indoors or outside? If outdoors then a stainless would be a better option. Sun will make your tank brittle after years outdoors. I have replaced mine once. I personally hate plastic booms. They kind of bend over time and your nozzles aren't uniform. I have stainless and my neighbor has the plastic. I will take mine any day over the plastic. Lack of service can make anything a piece of junk. Some are just junk no matter what you do. A guy here bought a Miller and had a wheel motor failure at low hrs. Then another shortly after that. Watching guys going full stick into a corner, then pulling back hard to stop, then backing in and hammering full stick forward to keep the boom pressure up instead of toggling a switch is just plain lazy and is destroying their machine. A goof ball operator can shorten the life of anything. Be wary!!
The sprayer will be covering a 2000 acre farm and my budget is 100k and under. I want to stay mechanical drive so I can fix problems like u joints and such. I can’t afford to fix a hydro unit if a motor goes.
 

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Hi there we don't farm a lot 1000 now up to 1500 acres..We bought a rogater 854 about 12 years ago with 4500hrs for 65K,the 4 wheel motor were changed under warranty when it was young the farmer said. it's now over 6400hrs and still spraying ..changed the tank to a 1000gal when it cracked up.. extended the booms to make 120. Been a great sprayer .a few oil leaks, the odd hose blows, but alll in all I think best investment on the farm, Big floater tires for in crop and when it was wet. the 9.5 inch skinny only work when it's bone dry thou !!!
 

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We run a SpraCoupe 7660, previously had a 7650. Mechanical drive with FWA. 725 ga tank and 90' boom. Not perfect by any means, but a nice sprayer for a smaller farm. Should be able to get one with under 1500 hrs for less than $100K.

They're not cheap to fix though. We've had a couple $20k plus repairs over the 2 units (FWA motors and injectors respectively) even though they were both at less than 1000 hours.
 
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