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Frustrating, Trying to sell durum, it is a #4, no colour in it, fus level between 2-7% depending on who counts it and what day. If it is under 2% I can get a good price, over $9 today, but if over 2% it is $6.25. So, my question is has anyone run a camas on durum this year in a similar situation? I can get a camas, but want to know what the cleanout might be to get it under 2% so I know whether it is worth the efforts.
 

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I can't comment on the camas but we ran some wheat over our gravity table and were able to take half the fus out with very little clean out (maybe 0.5%) the cleanout losses aren't very high since you are taking out the light kernels anyway
 

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I have never tried air to remove fus, however the Ont Ag says you can take some out by turning up air on combine so I don't see why high air machine wouldn't take some out. Also have herd of some good results with gravity table. Not sure what you would do with clean out as it could be toxic if fed to livestock.

My next ? would be if it can be removed for grade improvement after normal cleaning procedures, shouldn't it be included in "cleaning for grade improvement" in the Grain Grading Guide? Thereby becoming dockage.

Maybe time to catch up to today's problems and equipment to address these problems. On the production side we continuously make advancements at our expense time for industry to catch up.
 

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I have never tried air to remove fus, however the Ont Ag says you can take some out by turning up air on combine so I don't see why high air machine wouldn't take some out. Also have herd of some good results with gravity table. Not sure what you would do with clean out as it could be toxic if fed to livestock.

My next ? would be if it can be removed for grade improvement after normal cleaning procedures, shouldn't it be included in "cleaning for grade improvement" in the Grain Grading Guide? Thereby becoming dockage.

Maybe time to catch up to today's problems and equipment to address these problems. On the production side we continuously make advancements at our expense time for industry to catch up.
Cleaning for grade improvement - Wheat
Cleaning for grade improvement for wheat
Material to be removed Equipment Composition of dockage
Broken kernels No. 6 buckwheat hand sieve
No. 10x10 wire hand sieve
If the weight of brokenkernels in the cleaned sample is over the grade tolerance, you can remove up to 5.0% of the gross weight in broken kernels to improve the grade.

For example, if a sample of CWRS contains 12% broken kernels by gross weight, you can remove enough broken kernels to bring the percentage to 7%, which brings the sample within the grade tolerance for No. 3 CWRS. Add the maximum 5% broken kernels to dockage.

See Shrunken and broken.

Bunt balls Carter dockage tester, using the setup for Normal cleaning procedures, but with air control at a maximum setting of 7
If there is no odour, remove bunt balls and add to dockage.

If there is an odour, bunt is a grading factor.

See Common bunt.

All foreign material (other than stones and wild oats) No. 6 buckwheat hand sieve
No. 10x10 wire hand sieve Add material to dockage, if the grade is improved as a result.
Stones No. 6 buckwheat hand sieve If the weight of stones and other material removed is
5.0% or less of the gross weight, assess as dockage.
More than 5.0% of the gross weight, see Stones in Grading factors, or the relevant grade determinants table.
Wild oats Carter dockage tester, using the setup for Normal cleaning procedures, but with No. 1 riddle
No. 10x10 wire hand sieve Everything removed is dockage.

FUS DMG is not one of the factors that is considered in the cleaning for grade improvement process, due to the fact that not all FUS is the same. Yes, some of it is very dead, thin and light, but with most farmers now applying fungicides, the kernels are often fully developed and weigh just as much as a healthy kernel. Therefore, the guys that don't spray would get the benefits from cleaning more than the guy that tried the best to lessen the chance of getting the FUS, but missed the application window by a day and still ended up with the FUS in the field.
There is a study going on right now about removing the FUS from wheat being done by several Ag partners in Canada, and the results have been very positive, however the drawback is the speed of the machines, maxing out at just a few tonnes up to 10 tonnes an hour. For an on farm process, this may work, but to put it into terminal use would be a drop in an ocean.
 

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The point of cleaning for grade improvement is not to take out all the degrading factor but to improve to the highest grade possible without taking out good wheat.
My point is, as you have pointed out, is that there is ways and means of improving grade by removing some of the fus by special cleaning. It should be up to the industry to make sure that this is done. Not everything has to be down loaded onto the producer.
It takes farmers time and money to spray and then find a market when sprays don't work and don't even talk about what it costs, all costs will be down loaded back to the farmers anyways.

I'm just saying that I think the CGC could take a look at some of the procedures that are available today and modernize the guide. Not that most elevator grader's have even been trained on cleaning for grade improvement, or follow NORMAL cleaning procedures in guide anyhow.
 

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Fus could have been nipped in the butt, back in the early 90's. Instead of it being allowed to be transported all over western Canada (by grain companies) to be blended for grade improvement, when it was mainly a factor in Manitoba. It could have been quarantined and cleaned up there. Think Avian flu or BSE. Same principal stop it when it was first discovered and stop the spread.
 

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Fus could have been nipped in the butt, back in the early 90's. Instead of it being allowed to be transported all over western Canada (by grain companies) to be blended for grade improvement, when it was mainly a factor in Manitoba. It could have been quarantined and cleaned up there. Think Avian flu or BSE. Same principal stop it when it was first discovered and stop the spread.
I disagree, we have seeded wheat on land that has never seen wheat with 0 fus seed and sample still has fusarium in it. I believe the weather has more to do with the disease than anything.
 

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The point of cleaning for grade improvement is not to take out all the degrading factor but to improve to the highest grade possible without taking out good wheat.
My point is, as you have pointed out, is that there is ways and means of improving grade by removing some of the fus by special cleaning. It should be up to the industry to make sure that this is done. Not everything has to be down loaded onto the producer.
It takes farmers time and money to spray and then find a market when sprays don't work and don't even talk about what it costs, all costs will be down loaded back to the farmers anyways.

I'm just saying that I think the CGC could take a look at some of the procedures that are available today and modernize the guide. Not that most elevator grader's have even been trained on cleaning for grade improvement, or follow NORMAL cleaning procedures in guide anyhow.
I am not saying Fus can't be removed by several procedures, it is not something that is allowed in the elevator system. If you went to your local and asked if they could do cleaning for grade improvement by removing Fus, they have no mandate to do this. Could they do it to get your business, sure, but you couldn't force them to do it.

Fully agree that the CGC needs to modernize several aspects of what is going on, I thought that when they were paying me, and I still do. However to do this is not as simple as just asking for a change. several things need to be done, and often takes years to get through, and if there is a government change, then the reset button is pressed. Some things are orders of parliment, others need to be approved by the standards comittees, and very few are able to be changed just by the CGC.
 

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CGC pretty toothless in my opinion

Believe CGC is thing of past and before waiting on them to "change" grading stds, etc you better off to have all samples graded by SGS, intertek, etc. Ideally, even the end user. With thievery in grain business today you really do not know what price discovery is unless you have this. And by the way think you will see lots more on-farm cleaning/grade improving threads pop up that likely will be more intelligent than what color of equipment somebody needs.
 

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You can have your grain graded by anyone in Canada that you want, they are still going off standards set by the CGC. However, between person to person, their expertise and opinion can range wildly, even within the same company. If I was a producer, I would strongly be pushing for a more regulated grading industry. Right now in Canada, all you need for a certified grading company is put up the money and hire the people. There are no standards set or no courses as who can be a grader other than in tough years they will wash themselves out. In the US, to be a grader, you must pass a course, and every individual must pass the course and you stand on your own merit.
 

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Fus could have been nipped in the butt, back in the early 90's. Instead of it being allowed to be transported all over western Canada (by grain companies) to be blended for grade improvement, when it was mainly a factor in Manitoba. It could have been quarantined and cleaned up there. Think Avian flu or BSE. Same principal stop it when it was first discovered and stop the spread.
Lol fusarium has been around a lot longer than the 1990's or which 90's do you mean? Talk to some old guys and they can remember hauling truckloads of "pink/orange" grains to market way back when...nature typically balances itself. I think the fusarium outbreak is more a result of fungicide use and high moisture environments as manitoba tends to have. Also we do not burn stubble nearly as much for good reason anymore but there is benefits to burning as well. Fire cleanses. Then theres continuous cropping, shorter rotations...the list goes on. it is a spore therefore its spread by wind more so than sitting in a truck or rail car going to market...
 

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cleaning Fus out of durum is a good and easy option... but it is the Vomi that is the real down grading factor in our durum.. over 12ppm in uncleaned samples.. cleaning has gotten it down to 5ppm.. still only good for cattle feed.

I have bought a Grain Cleaning System cleaner setting it up to clean my own seed then I will try upgrading the durum after spring seeding(when the weather and time permits)
 

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Agree, The early 90's was when I was involved in the transporting and blending of fus infected grain from Man to AB where it wasn't as wide spread yet. My point is did/are we doing enough to control the spread?

Talked to a Vet that is concerned with the amount of Fus and Ergot that is getting into livestock feed through commercial mills. It is making livestock sick and even killing. How long before it gets into the human food chain.
We are spending money on inventing sprays and resistant seed, which is good but we need to stop the spread so we can have time to control the source. Just like Avian flu or BSE, if fus infected grain would have been destroyed and land decontaminated years ago, would it be as big of problem and wide spread today contaminating livestock feed and getting into human food?

I had a field of swathed wheat that a herd of deer, that was known to be CWD infected got into and the harvested grain was full of feces. Crop ins and Wildlife had me destroy the crop, because they didn't know how CWD was spread and didn't want to risk the further spread. Even tho the feces could have been removed or the crop could have been used as seed or ground up and spread back on land as fertilizer. They didn't want to risk the spread so full payout was made, until we can find a way of stopping the spread or eradication of the problem.

Point is we are more concerned about the spread of disease in livestock and wildlife than we are of the spread in human food and we are more interested in inventing sprays and resistant seeds than stopping at source. We missed our chance on this one but what is next and will we have learnt?
 
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