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Discussion Starter #1
I went to a grain sorghum class yesterday, and they preached quite a bit about micro-nutrient requirements. What are you guys doing for application of these such nutrients. I have no experience with this at all so any help would be appreciated. We grow no-till and conventional wheat, soybeans and milo. Thanks
 

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one very efficient way of getting any nutrient, including micro-nutrient into the plant is through a foliar application, it takes less product to make a larger difference. In order to make a difference long term you would need to start amending the soil not just fixing the immediate issue by foliar applying product. the soil applied nutrient can be placed and applied whenever you are over the field with your other fertilizers, for the most part either dry or liquid, you can get micro's to mix into your normal fertilizer blend.
 

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Best,cheapest and most available form of micro nutrients is sulphates applied in liquid form down each Tyne on your bar.
To figure out what you need to apply you will need to do some soil tests, plant tests & have a good understanding or agronomist in detecting visually what is lacking by looking at your plants.
Before I started using traces you could look across the crop and you could easily pick the different soil types by the look of the crop.
This is what I use as a blanket rate
500g/ha zinc
500g/ha manganese
50g/ha copper
10g/ha Molly
400mls/ha impact
With 50L/ ha water
In one tank mix
& liquid nitrogen applied in the other tank.
Two different pumps and two different lines all the way to the tynes.
NEVER mix all products together you asking for trouble. Also you are able to variable rate your "N".
After using this brew the crop is more or less visually like a table top and the different soil types are not noticeable to the untrained eye.
Basically when you look across your crop and it doesn't look like a table top you have a problem of some sort.
My soil types vary from heavy clays ph 8+ to sand over clay, gravel loams to everything and anything in between.
To variable rate for each and every different soil type it wasn't logistically or cost effective.

I've got to go out but I'll come back and explain what pumps, tanks and set up I'm using if you want?
Hope that's helped somewhat.
Oh I also grow Wheat, Barley, Canola, Lupins, Fields peas , Chick peas and stupid sheep!:)
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Thanks for your replies, there are some folks in my area using micro-nutrients, but a lot are not. We at getting into doing more grid sampling, and are seeing where we are deficient on certain nutrients and where we need to improve. It's a bit more of a feat trying to get the old man on the same page with me on newer technologies and practices. He is of the school were N P and K as well as required lime is all that is needed to raise a crop. I know that that train of thought has made our operations work for a lot of years, but I just want to maximize our grounds potential where we can.
 

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We have been putting sulfur and zinc added to 10-34-0 and 32% in a 2x2 band for the past 2 or 3 years on corn and milo. We also put zinc and sulfur with 10-34-0 on soybeans. We haven't done any on wheat yet, we've talked about putting some on with the 28% when we top dress wheat in a few weeks. I understand dealing with the old man, talk him into letting you try something on a small field or a field that just doesn't seem to be yielding like it should. You have some time for him to mull over the idea before milo planting.
 

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Considering P is generally your most expensive nutrient you will find your able to drop its use considerably once you've got everything else in balance. In the end you'll end up saving money on fert.
The rule of thumb is for every tonne of grain produced you should only need 2 units of "P".
So I'm just curious what is everyone's p use compared to there average yields?

Kansa's..... Your best bet is to spray the same sort of brew (but twice the strength) out in front on a few paddocks early before seeding ( it won't be any inconvenience then). Do it in trial strips and try and get it on as many different soil types as possible. Hopefully you will be able to see a difference visually or yield data to help prove your point. It's not going to be a huge expense to try.
I bet your old man never heard of lime when he first started or at least there was very little use of it! Now I say it's the first thing that gets priority ........just remind him!!:)
I dare say the cost of setting it up & the logistics of it during seeding is what concerns him. It doesn't necessarily have to cost a heap but you do have to spend the money in the right areas. Do it half assed and your going to come undone.
 

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I have great success putting 2-3L of black label or 1-2L of nutri-rx on foliar application with final pass of herbicide at herbicide timing. Seem to get 4-10% increase in yield, depending on conditions and field.
 

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Ive used micro-nutrients in my starter fert and foliar spray it as well. 2 applications of 16/oz foliar and 2 gal in the row when planting. I use PGS mixed with 10-34-0 and spray the C4 with 8 gallon of water. My results have been nothing short of amazing in the 3 years I've been using it. Using these products I have been able to get away from using fungicides on my wheat, I foliar feed instead of spray fungicide.
 

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that's interesting. I haven't heard much good about the macro-nutrient 10-34-0 but your micro-nutrients sound like a good idea. I tried maxim ZMB micro-nutrient(foliar) a couple of years ago with no definite conclusion.
Here's some low population dryland corn that I grew with half the N input's of what the farm normally uses. I instead put those dollars into the products I described before. I had an 8$/acre higher input cost, but outyielded the control by 18 bushels. Where I saw the biggest eye catcher was where the snow drifted last winter. I was seeing anywhere 150-180 bushel yields with only 12,000 plants. :D




Here is the outside row of that 150-180 bushel corn.



All of this corn with the exception of this last picture was grown with only 14" of annual moisture. Its hard to tell how much more moisture the outside 100' had, but the yield blew me away for sure.
 

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we put down 10 gal of 10-34-0 with quart of zinc with strip till and same 2by 2 on planter then we put 3 gallons of rizor FA from Loveland products in furrow with seed. Then about V4 to tassel we pump on 200 units of n and a custom micro pack depending on tissue tests. We have tried a lot of in furrow micro's and foliar blends and have found that fulvic and humic acids have a lot to do with how well what your putting out their gets used by ur plants.
 

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Be careful with black label or sulfur in the mix, it can plug check valves and orifices. There is nothing worse than streaks due to plugged fertilizer equipment.

Experiment with balancing nutrients, keep pulling soil samples and do some tissue samples. Timing of nutrients, placement of nutrients, and a whole list of other things can influence. Try to keep it as simple as possible, it might be broadcasting some mesz on preplant. When you get a handle on the nutrients then finding best way for you to get them applied. The only wrong way is not getting the nutrients out there when the plant needs it.
 

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Kansasfarmer, you should be asking why you need micros. If you use glyphosate, then you need micros that get tied up. Your dad is right by using the lime. Calcium is essential to floculate the soil and set the environment for everything important to take place. If the chemical companies would recommend the use of calcium, their profits would start dropping.
When doing soil testing, how deep are you going?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Kansasfarmer, you should be asking why you need micros. If you use glyphosate, then you need micros that get tied up. Your dad is right by using the lime. Calcium is essential to floculate the soil and set the environment for everything important to take place. If the chemical companies would recommend the use of calcium, their profits would start dropping.
When doing soil testing, how deep are you going?
We have been sampling from 0 to 6" and 6 to 12".
 

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Kansasfarmer, you should be asking why you need micros. If you use glyphosate, then you need micros that get tied up. Your dad is right by using the lime. Calcium is essential to floculate the soil and set the environment for everything important to take place. If the chemical companies would recommend the use of calcium, their profits would start dropping.
When doing soil testing, how deep are you going?
What does it matter if you use glyphosate or not? Yes I know glyphosate does tie nutrients up but if the plant needs micros, it needs it. Maybe should be asking a more important question..... What is your crop rotation and are you increasing root pruning nematodes by not having a break crop. Eg Wheat, Barley, Canola all host the same nematodes. Where a break crop such as field peas, Chick peas don't. Take a look at the root system in the following crop after peas compared to to one that doesn't. Obviously by having a poor root system every nutrient, all the available rainfall is not available to the plant as well as being more vulnerable to disease, frost etc.
By floculate I'm presuming you mean getting the soil ph to an optimum of 5.5 where every nutrient is more available to the plant and yes every chemical works a lot better to kill weeds.
You want to make sure your soil ph is around 5-5.5 if possible at the 6-12" zone also.
 

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What is the depth of your aerobic zone? In my area it's about 1"-2". A soil test beyond that is useless. Floculation is where the soil is opened up on an electrical bassis to allow air to get in to allow your soil biology to breath. Although, glyphosate(an antibiotic) does a number on the benaficial microbes and could be why you have a nematode problem. The soil ph will balance itself at 6.4 with enough available calcium. If you balance the soil, the need for any chemicals will go away.

Also a balanced soil will increase the sugar content of the plant and make it more tollerant to frost and drought.
 

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What is "Black Label" ?

Here the only "Black Label" I have ever heard of is a brand of beer .

We add Zinc to our pop Up fertilizer on the seed of both corn and sorghrum , N with our Post Herbicde and foliar NPK blend with our Fungicide on corn , beans , wheat and sorghum.

Going to be doing sulphur trials this season .
 

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I don't see too many infield pictures of corn with that amount of soil cover. Is that normal for your area?
I havent had a tillage tool in the field since 2006, as far as no til goes its pretty much the norm. There are some farms with substantially more plant matter covering the ground, one farmer in particular hasnt run a tillage tool through his fields since the early to mid 90's.
 

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What is "Black Label" ?
This is the stuff I have used: http://www.uap.ca/products/documents/BlackLabelZn6-20-009-12v1NoChanges.pdf
Based off of nicemustang's results I might have to give it a more thorough look. I have tried it in-furrow as well as Alpine with some micro's and no better results than similar #/acre of 11-52.

Here is what I am using to put down some copper/zinc and they have a boron formulation coming: Bentonite Sulphur/Micronutrients
I am chronically marginal in these three micro's and this is infinitely cheaper than foliar per # of nutrient. I am hoping that using a maintenance program will avoid low tissue tests and over-sprays. We will see.;)
 

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Im getting some early results of my starter program for my wheat. The first two pictures are half rate of my fertilizer program while using a traditional NPK program in the fall across the board . The second two are at full rate (5$/acre more) The half rate is chemfallow from cornstalks, the second two are chemfallow'd wheat stubble.











Up to this point everything is in furrow application.
 
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