[lookingglass]

Local red dealer's been trying to get in my pocket for a while and brought out a 7120 as a demo for a few hours yeterday. First time in my life in a red machine in my own fields. here's my take:

1. Very smooth quiet running machine. Zero noise from feederhouse or rotor in some pretty tough cutting frosted beans.
2. Lots of capacity in some tough beans. Not loads more than our up to date R72, but pretty noticable. We could push our 30' head about 4.6-5.0 but she would growl from time to time. Even with a less superior head we pushed the 35" head on the 7120 5.5 to 6mp with no feedback from the feeder or rotor.
3. Much simpler than I expected. 1 feeder chain, the rotor, the shoe and the chopper/spreader and thats it. No beaters, rollers or augers. Plenty of access areas, steps and foot holds. With my machine you have to be a monkey to work on the stuff located out of reach on the ground. I spent some time in a Deere a few years back and disliked all the drives and complex design.
4. Cab is nice and visibilty is decent. Does seem a bit smaller, but not sure. Monitor and controls all pretty user friendly. Nice rear window into the tank that allows you to clean both sides very easily. What a novel idea.
5. Their flex head is not very impressive. A draper was unavailable which I was interested in trying, but their auger head is not as good as Gleaner. Very tough to get set and seems built on the cheap if you ask me.
6. I like access to the grain tank from the cab steps of our 72. Not sure why maybe habit, but I like that ease.
7. The extensions on the Case are cool as crap. The tank is a bit easier to navigate in and they go up and down in a flash with 2 pins.
8. The cab steps on the Case suck. They are straight up and down and hard to climb if you have anything in your hand.
9. I like the covered engine compartment on our Gleaner better. Things are more accessable.

As with any machine they will all break and they all have somethings that are a PIA to work on. I still like my Gleaner, I can just about take it apart and put it back together with my eyes closed. Quite frankly with the limited cost differential between the two and the superior parts and service offered by the competition it will be a hard decision.

 

[greeniron]

Thanks for posting such an informative critique. Always good to hear the pros and cons of an in-field appraisal. Please keep us posted on your decision. And regardless of which machine you choose next, kudos to your dealer for helping you in this decision.

 

[lookingglass]

You know I'm sure that AGCO has made lots of these same electronic advances. But the only experience we can get is to look at the brochures or drive miles away to ride with someone. I was pretty vocal about the lack of new combines on lots and at shows as well as the lack of combines out on demo. I'm not saying that by demoing a Gleaner that my decision would be changed, but I can tell you that by trying the red one for a few hours my eyes are a bit more open than they were before. And quite frankly that's how you get business from the competition. We don't wear underwear, so we aren't afraid to drive anything of any color and the proof of that is in my shed full of orange, silver, blue, red, green and yellow. So my perspective is pretty much what I experienced and isn't biased one bit.

 

[ru4gleaner2]

lookingglass,

It just doesn't seem possible that the cost differential could vary that much in one part of the country versus another. I guess everyone's definition of cost difference could be different. We're very fortunate to have all the major color dealers close to the farm, but just like you we are far from color blind. We have no complaints with any dealer. Have always ran a Gleaner because we feel it's the best bang of a combine for the buck. The last 2 years at our State Fair both Gleaner and Case has had Class 7 machines displayed next to each other and each year the difference between the 2 is very considerable in my book. Maybe it would be different once you started to negotiate sitting in the Case salesman office but I can't imagine they didn't have a fairly competitive price presented at the State Fair especially when sitting close to the Gleaner. I could just about buy the R76 and a 30 ft 8200 flex head in my neck of the woods for almost the same price of just the Case machine.

What kind of figure was your Case dealer throwing out for you on the 7120, before trade number?

 

[orange]

Interesting comments, looks like our next machine will be the NH variety since AGCO has made it offical that unless you want a Challenger, of which they sell in the single digits, or a MF, we will be out of luck. Looks like Gleaner is on its last legs according to the death nell sent to dealers today - see other post.

 

[lookingglass]

lookingglass,

It just doesn't seem possible that the cost differential could vary that much in one part of the country versus another. I guess everyone's definition of cost difference could be different. We're very fortunate to have all the major color dealers close to the farm, but just like you we are far from color blind. We have no complaints with any dealer. Have always ran a Gleaner because we feel it's the best bang of a combine for the buck. The last 2 years at our State Fair both Gleaner and Case has had Class 7 machines displayed next to each other and each year the difference between the 2 is very considerable in my book. Maybe it would be different once you started to negotiate sitting in the Case salesman office but I can't imagine they didn't have a fairly competitive price presented at the State Fair especially when sitting close to the Gleaner. I could just about buy the R76 and a 30 ft 8200 flex head in my neck of the woods for almost the same price of just the Case machine.

What kind of figure was your Case dealer throwing out for you on the 7120, before trade number?

Until we decide to actually do something I'd just as soon not post specific financial details.

 

[ru4gleaner2]

No problem I completely understand that.

 

[jockinthebox16]

how comparable was fuel use?? case had brought out a 7120 for us in wheat this summer, and next to the 9770 the 7120 used 1.5-2x the fuel...with no measurable difference in capacity. im not a deere fan (or really a huge red fan either), but for being basically the same HP engines, i was quite disapointed in that. the boss said if he had to run 4 7120's, he would have spend an extra $30,000 in fuel this year! I keep telling him if he had gleaners he'd be done by now, but the local dealer only has a c-62, and the deere dealers pretty good, so i dont think he'll switch anytime soon. but maybe they'll get their act in gear and have hime demo a new gleaner sometime!

 

[lookingglass]

lookingglass,

It just doesn't seem possible that the cost differential could vary that much in one part of the country versus another. I guess everyone's definition of cost difference could be different. We're very fortunate to have all the major color dealers close to the farm, but just like you we are far from color blind. We have no complaints with any dealer. Have always ran a Gleaner because we feel it's the best bang of a combine for the buck. The last 2 years at our State Fair both Gleaner and Case has had Class 7 machines displayed next to each other and each year the difference between the 2 is very considerable in my book. Maybe it would be different once you started to negotiate sitting in the Case salesman office but I can't imagine they didn't have a fairly competitive price presented at the State Fair especially when sitting close to the Gleaner. I could just about buy the R76 and a 30 ft 8200 flex head in my neck of the woods for almost the same price of just the Case machine.

What kind of figure was your Case dealer throwing out for you on the 7120, before trade number?

These are 09 machines without heads. The Gleaner brand new, the 7120 w/ approx 20 demo hours. Duals, 4WD, etc. Approx 15-20 more for the red one. If I skip the Case programs and go cash I save another 2% or almost half of the difference. 2010 7088 comes in about 10-15 more than the 09 R76. Lots of money but only 5-10%. We want to go draper, and I'm not sure I want to be one of the first to run the dynaflex. AGCO doesn't have much success with in house new designs(see the A85/86, AGCOstar) so I must admit I'm pretty skeptical.

 

[lookingglass]

lookingglass,

It just doesn't seem possible that the cost differential could vary that much in one part of the country versus another. I guess everyone's definition of cost difference could be different. We're very fortunate to have all the major color dealers close to the farm, but just like you we are far from color blind. We have no complaints with any dealer. Have always ran a Gleaner because we feel it's the best bang of a combine for the buck. The last 2 years at our State Fair both Gleaner and Case has had Class 7 machines displayed next to each other and each year the difference between the 2 is very considerable in my book. Maybe it would be different once you started to negotiate sitting in the Case salesman office but I can't imagine they didn't have a fairly competitive price presented at the State Fair especially when sitting close to the Gleaner. I could just about buy the R76 and a 30 ft 8200 flex head in my neck of the woods for almost the same price of just the Case machine.

What kind of figure was your Case dealer throwing out for you on the 7120, before trade number?

Finally finished harvest a few weeks ago and had time to get deeper into this. Basically 7120(09), 3408 CH(09) and 35' 2162(10) will run me $19K above an R76 with 830 Hugger and new 35' draper, though no one seemed to want to guarantee a draper delivery for fall 10.

I think product wise they are both good machines. I probably like the Hugger head a bit more than the Case, but the Case draper is proven vs AGCO's which will be limited production. In our farm the 7120 has a some more capacity, especially in beans. The Pro600 seems pretty nice. Can't comment on the GTA much as the dealers knowledge is minimal and without being able to run one I can't formulate much of an opinion, though I suspect its pretty decent as well. Red has a huge advantage in dealer support and service(we don't live in Kansas). The Maxservice Case program is way ahead of anything AGCO has to offer, but I'm sure that all goes into the price as well. Still like my silver seeder, got loads of parts and can do all the work practically in my sleep with one hand tied behind my back. Tough call. Gonna sleep a few days before making the deal either way.

 

[ru4gleaner2]

[/quote]
Finally finished harvest a few weeks ago and had time to get deeper into this. Basically 7120(09), 3408 CH(09) and 35' 2162(10) will run me $19K above an R76 with 830 Hugger and new 35' draper, though no one seemed to want to guarantee a draper delivery for fall 10.

I think product wise they are both good machines. I probably like the Hugger head a bit more than the Case, but the Case draper is proven vs AGCO's which will be limited production. In our farm the 7120 has a some more capacity, especially in beans. The Pro600 seems pretty nice. Can't comment on the GTA much as the dealers knowledge is minimal and without being able to run one I can't formulate much of an opinion, though I suspect its pretty decent as well. Red has a huge advantage in dealer support and service(we don't live in Kansas). The Maxservice Case program is way ahead of anything AGCO has to offer, but I'm sure that all goes into the price as well. Still like my silver seeder, got loads of parts and can do all the work practically in my sleep with one hand tied behind my back. Tough call. Gonna sleep a few days before making the deal either way.[/quote]


Well the best thing about your decision is either way your going to end up with a really nice machine and heads. Hope it never happens to us but if Gleaner moves out of our area the next machine would probably be red on our farm also.

Go for the new 76 and take the money you saved and buy your wife something nice!!!

Best of luck on your decision.

 

[wolters]

With the 7120 only with 15-20 hrs on it, you probably notice more power when you get to 150-200hrs. We notice that with our 7120, it just held its rpm better when loaded up. With the fuel i thought we were doing not to bad, we use about 1.8 litres per acre when pushing a 45 foot comb {header} running at 95% - 110% load all day. just a couple of my thoughts. wolters

 

[wheaty75]

We as gleaner owners looked at adding a 71 or 8120 bine but after talking to several different owners, the majority were leaning towards a New Holland or they said to keep the silver machines. Now I said majority not all so don't kill the messenger red guys

 

[lookingglass]

Done deal. We went red(not Massey) really based on parts and service. Hard decision as the Gleaners have always been good. Who knows, if they shape up their dealer network and improve parts and actually at some point give a hoot about their customers i'd give them a shot down the road. Its funny I asked to run a new 66 or 76 to see how the new SISU would compare to Cummins, but was told demos were too expensive to do anymore. I still proceeded. Got prices and trade differences on the box and for a new draper. Guess how many times my AGCO dealer called me back. One time and it was 30 days after we initially talked and the day of the ordering dealine. Case was plenty happy to demo a machine called to ask questions and in my opinion really have an interest in seeing their combine suceed on our farm. AGCO wanted me to sign a sales order and pay the bill. Made really no attempt to make a sale. Not sure if they thought we'd stay silver as thats what we had done in the past or what. I'm not a Massey hater or AGCO hater I will sure consider their products in the future, but my decisions will be based on price, parts and service. The later two things they need to work on. Plus my personal feeling is that as Gleaners continue to slide in sales that brand may too be doomed for extingsion. Our area has no Gleaners left.

 

[lookingglass]

With harvest basically over and a full season in the 7120 and a year removed from our R series my opinions have not changed much. But I offer the following comments:

The 7120 is tall. With the extensions down we have a couple older sheds it won't get into. Low lines will get the fill auger so you have to drop it pretty much most of the time on the road. Good thing it's a easy task compared to what we had. Should have ponied up for the powerfold hopper.

The cab entry ladder sucks. Straight up and down. However it never once hit rows of corn, so I guess it is good and bad.

I was always anti-turret for unload augers but with all the unloading on the go I can't begin to think of going back to the swivel.

The cab feels smaller, but actually has a lot more storage space. It is quiet and has good visibility.

I wish they had access to the hopper from the cab platform. I definately miss that.

The feeder on the 7120 is awesome. All season no choke ups and one choked rotor(that did not require getting out of the cab to unclog).

The clean grain elevator is tremendous. Plenty of capacity and ran it all year without one adjustment.

Once we "tricked" the self leveling shoe a bit we got good samples with little loss.

In our conditions the spreader on it is worlds better than
what we had. No more over thrown or underthrown windrows behind a 30' head.

AFS is very good. The accuray is tremendous and the service and support even better. Very user friendly and capable of fixing many operator errors.

While I was skeptical of the corn head at first I like it better than the hugger. It feeds better and has less butt shelling than our Huggers ever did. Plus we never choked the cross auger up. However I will say the cross auger chain ajustment design is pretty dumb.

We struggled with the draper a bit the first couple evening, but it has proven to be awesome.

Over all we are satisfied. No matter what you drive there will always be things you wish were different. Probably the big advantage is, if I have questions our dealer is tremendous in helping us, the AFS call center can walk you through about anything on the monitor and I have neighboprs I can ask questions of instead of calling dealers 500 miles away or posting questions on a web site.

I am still intrigued by the S7 and if our local market was different we would maybe look at it again someday. I would have never thought we'd replace our Gleaner. Just goes to show you have to look at all the options out there because you really never know what's out there until you look. I am not bashing the Gleaner as it is a fine machine just providing some non-advertising opinions.

 

[scott]

been keeping a eye on this thread, all colors have issues, newer cases 8120 or 9120, marry them with a macdon draper set correct, heck of a machine, not gonna strat flaming wars, landlord used a hydroflex 40' it was junk couldn't compare to macdon, thought it was a draper like macdon, nope, kinda copyied from a 974 macdon, scott.

 

[lookingglass]

been keeping a eye on this thread, all colors have issues, newer cases 8120 or 9120, marry them with a macdon draper set correct, heck of a machine, not gonna strat flaming wars, landlord used a hydroflex 40' it was junk couldn't compare to macdon, thought it was a draper like macdon, nope, kinda copyied from a 974 macdon, scott.

We had a lot of lodged beans this year, maybe as bad as we have ever had. I am connvinced that the draper saved us 1-2 or even more bushels per acre so the head will nearly pay for itself in one year. My local dealer has a Dynaflex head out and while I am not wild about the mechanical drives I do think it will be a good head. I talked to one nieghbor who ran it for a day on their 76 and he said the biggest issue is no one knows how to get it set. He said he felt that they could see how the benefits will happen, but just couldn't get it set to actually see them. Which is one reason we did not get a Dynaflex as I had no intention of being a guinnea pig. Plus I have a sneaky feeling that head was built to harvest wheat first and beans second.

 

[lookingglass]

We as gleaner owners looked at adding a 71 or 8120 bine but after talking to several different owners, the majority were leaning towards a New Holland or they said to keep the silver machines. Now I said majority not all so don't kill the messenger red guys

We looked at the New Holland and While I'm not a huge fan of either rethreshing system I thought the Case design made a bit more sense. Plus we shell a lot of corn and it seems the sigle large rotor does better in that while the twins do a better job in other crops. Finally we liked the MacDon style draper vs the Honeybee style. In addition to that our Case dealer is 4 miles away vs the closest New Holland at 20 miles. We are far from the first to switch from a Gleaner to a red one and I picked several of their brains before deciding. While there are always things you would change they all said they would not go back to the Gleaner after owning a red one. As with anything new there is a learning curve but I can tell you so far we are very pleased with the important aspects of the machine(service, support, sample, field loss, fuel use and capacity).

 

[silvercan]

Thanks for posting such an informative critique. Always good to hear the pros and cons of an in-field appraisal. Please keep us posted on your decision. And regardless of which machine you choose next, kudos to your dealer for helping you in this decision.

AGREED.. Very Nice and Informative for sure!!

Thanks for posting.. Always Great to hear a fair and reasonably impartial take of competitors machines..

 

[lookingglass]

AGREED.. Very Nice and Informative for sure!!

Thanks for posting.. Always Great to hear a fair and reasonably impartial take of competitors machines..

Well I have sure taken a lot of abuse on here, I think I have always been fair. I do realize that what work on our farm does not always work on others, and vice versa so my opinions may clash with others. I know when we looked at other colors that first hand unbiased info is hard to come by. The new farm rags are nothing but advertising prositutes and offer little info to the producer. I wish we had publications like the auto industry, Can you imagine a "Car and Driver" type shootout with combines, tractors, etc? Real farmers in real fields providing real opinions. I'm not trying to sell red combines or green ones or silver ones, just my thoughts on my experiences. I just think its very hard to say that one combine is better than the other when you have never set foot in one.