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Just saw it at the farm show. I think the concept is cool and I believe they can get the speed they claim, however there is a lot of moving parts now added to the meter itself. Its now two staged where the vacuum meter is metering to the next unit that places the seed almost directly into the ground. My guess is there will be a high price to be paid for this high speed unit as is for anything else.

It looks pretty radical I must say!
 

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It doesn't appear that there are any changes to the actual row unit, so I would still be very hesitant to plant at 10mph because of inconsistent depth/pressure and bouncing closing wheels.

Here's a question I don't know the answer to -what limits planting speed, inconsistent seed drop in the seed tube or row unit movement? Or is the thought that by eliminating the inconsistent seed drop, row unit movement won't be as critical anymore because it doesn't bump and jostle the seed around inside the tube?
 

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It doesn't appear that there are any changes to the actual row unit, so I would still be very hesitant to plant at 10mph because of inconsistent depth/pressure and bouncing closing wheels.
They completely changed the drop of the seed. There is no tube anymore. It's a brush belt drop system which causes no bounce or roll in the seed on its way down. And it's all electric driven like the Kinze 4900.

 

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Definitely! I hope the electric drive will help reduce clumping of seeds on the inside during a turn and help keep the outside seeds equally spaced while turning instead of getting to them so far spread out like our JD 1770 does. Kinze claims their 4900 will do it.

At 2:09 on this video is what I mean I guess

 

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Didn't Precision Planting came out with a 12V electric drive meter IIRC that did the same thing in relation to corners? I would assume JD would make theirs do the same.

Definitely a jump ahead in seeding and it'll be interesting to see how they perform. It'll be interesting to see what other crops they get it to work with as well.
 

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They completely changed the drop of the seed. There is no tube anymore. It's a brush belt drop system which causes no bounce or roll in the seed on its way down. And it's all electric driven like the Kinze 4900.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XebeXoHOI_0
That's the metering system. By row unit I mean gauge wheels (which are still a leading arm rather than trailing arm design like a Case IH), discs, parallel links and closing system.
 

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Here's a question I don't know the answer to -what limits planting speed, inconsistent seed drop in the seed tube or row unit movement? Or is the thought that by eliminating the inconsistent seed drop, row unit movement won't be as critical anymore because it doesn't bump and jostle the seed around inside the tube?
Somewhere I read that the design of the original JD seed tube was so that when a seed was released from the meter, at 5mph forward speed, the seed should never touch the seed tube. As the seed falls and the row unit moves ahead, the two shouldn't touch. I've even heard that someone tried planting very slow (2mph) and the stand was worse than at 4.5mph. At the time, they blamed it on the seeds bouncing in the tube.

So with the new belt design, that part of seed handling has been removed from the equation.

Andrew
 

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Yeah my POV is that the metering system being a part of the row unit I guess but now I understand what you mean. But yeah I think they only beefed up one shank on the actual unit to withstand the additional load and stress from planting at higher speeds is what it says on JD's website description. Still looks like the same opening discs and closing system.

Didn't make it to Louisville to the farm show to see it, but I think Kinze is released this feature today for their new 4900 calling it a multi-hybrid planter that will plant 2 different varieties on different soil types using 2 meters on each row unit.


Pretty interesting, just shows how much the Ag industry can evolve in a couple years with technology advances.
 

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Somewhere I read that the design of the original JD seed tube was so that when a seed was released from the meter, at 5mph forward speed, the seed should never touch the seed tube. As the seed falls and the row unit moves ahead, the two shouldn't touch. I've even heard that someone tried planting very slow (2mph) and the stand was worse than at 4.5mph. At the time, they blamed it on the seeds bouncing in the tube.

So with the new belt design, that part of seed handling has been removed from the equation.

Andrew
Isn't that simple physics rather than a design feature? Unless the tube is curved, the speed shouldn't matter, the relative forward speed of the seed and tube is the same. It's kind of like sitting in a car beside someone. Toss them a ball, it goes to them, not behind them.
 

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Isn't that simple physics rather than a design feature? Unless the tube is curved, the speed shouldn't matter, the relative forward speed of the seed and tube is the same. It's kind of like sitting in a car beside someone. Toss them a ball, it goes to them, not behind them.
No, if the cars are moving the ball would go behind them instead of to them. It's the Coriolis effect. The seed is not being pulled forward like the planter is, just as a ball is not being pulled along with the cars.

Coriolis effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

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No, if the cars are moving the ball would go behind them instead of to them. It's the Coriolis effect. The seed is not being pulled forward like the planter is, just as a ball is not being pulled along with the cars.

Coriolis effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I'm well aware of the coriolis effect. I think at the speeds and distances we're talking, it is extremely negligible. Plus, the quote about slower speeds making it bounce would be a movement in the wrong direction, no?

Besides, the coriolis effect involves rotation, not linear speed, does not have anything to do with 2 people in the same car, they have the same relative velocity. Now if I'm on the inner horsey of a merry-go-round, and you're on the outer, we have a different situation.
 

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I'm well aware of the coriolis effect. I think at the speeds and distances we're talking, it is extremely negligible. Plus, the quote about slower speeds making it bounce would be a movement in the wrong direction, no?

Besides, the coriolis effect involves rotation, not linear speed, does not have anything to do with 2 people in the same car, they have the same relative velocity. Now if I'm on the inner horsey of a merry-go-round, and you're on the outer, we have a different situation.
The cars have the same relative velocity. The ball, however, does not. It's this concept but on a smaller scale that's being talked about. The ball behaves differently when you're going 30 MPH vs 60 MPH and the same is true for the seed. Going faster with the planter would make the seed initially hit the back of the tube before tumbling down while going slower would cause the opposite.

True on the coriolis effect being for rotation but it's still the same concept. Feel free to go drive on a road and toss a ball out the window and see what happens to it ;) The force that would be needed to make it go exactly perpendicular to your direction would be immense and it would need to go very fast. But having a conveyor take it across to a second vehicle would get it there the same every singe time, no matter the speed. That's what this new planter does.
 

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The cars have the same relative velocity. The ball, however, does not. It's this concept but on a smaller scale that's being talked about. The ball behaves differently when you're going 30 MPH vs 60 MPH and the same is true for the seed. Going faster with the planter would make the seed initially hit the back of the tube before tumbling down while going slower would cause the opposite.

True on the coriolis effect being for rotation but it's still the same concept. Feel free to go drive on a road and toss a ball out the window and see what happens to it ;) The force that would be needed to make it go exactly perpendicular to your direction would be immense and it would need to go very fast. But having a conveyor take it across to a second vehicle would get it there the same every singe time, no matter the speed. That's what this new planter does.
Look closely, I said 2 people in the same car.

You haven't convinced me.

The speeds and distances down a seed tube are negligible for what you're saying. For anyone to design a tube that would compensate for this would require. . . what? Any angle or curve would be good for exactly 1 precise speed in your analogy. A force field? Would work regardless.

BS in engineering, yourself?

*edit* I see my statement about the cars could be interpeted as 2 cars, not what I meant. Feel free to toss a ball to someone in your passenger seat and tell us what happens.
 

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When you drop a ball out of a car window, the ball initially has the same speed and direction as the car when observed by a stationary bystander. However, since the ball is now traveling through the air by itself with no force from the car being applied to it, the air immediately begins to slow the ball down, just as gravity immediately begins to make it drop. To the bystander though, it would continue to move forward until it came to a rest.

If on the other hand, you throw it out the window, it would move on an angle if there were no air resistance, 1 component of velocity the velocity of the car, the other component the speed at which you threw it. Air resistance slows both of them down, at rates relative to the cube of the speed, so probably unequally, so it would move in a curve relative to a stationary bystander.

I know you agreed about coriolis involving rotation, but again, pointing out here how it is totally different. Unless the car was several miles wide and you were going around a curve, the effect of anything but air resistance is negligible if existant:D
 

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Look closely, I said 2 people in the same car.

You haven't convinced me.

The speeds and distances down a seed tube are negligible for what you're saying. For anyone to design a tube that would compensate for this would require. . . what? Any angle or curve would be good for exactly 1 precise speed in your analogy. A force field? Would work regardless.

BS in engineering, yourself?

*edit* I see my statement about the cars could be interpeted as 2 cars, not what I meant. Feel free to toss a ball to someone in your passenger seat and tell us what happens.
Ah, thought you meant in different cars haha. Even then, it's comparing it on a different plane, being parallel to the ground instead of perpendicular which would be affected by gravity differently.

Drop a ball straight down at different speeds of forward travel and at the slower speed, it'll be closer to you when it hits the ground vs being further away when you are going faster because you have much more forward momentum than the ball does. This holds true for seeds going down a seed tube, just on a smaller scale. Wind doesn't affect anything as the seed tube is obviously impervious to any wind. But if you use something like the brush in the JD unit, you can place it on the ground precisely at any speed.

I just used the wrong analogy earlier going off of your ball analogy. Even so, as humans we compensate for things like forward momentum, however small it may be. So to make the analogy perfect, one would need to be able to lob the ball perfectly perpendicular to the direction of travel and find out if it stayed on that same plane or not. Probably quite negligible but I would venture to guess that it does not stay on the original path.

How much difference it makes, I'm not sure. But I guess we can just agree to disagree :D
 

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Looks like we will disagree on certain points, I'm ok with that. This has been fun, not attacks intended.

In the spirit of such "Even then, it's comparing it on a different plane, being parallel to the ground instead of perpendicular which would be affected by gravity differently." Gotta pick on that one. Physics prof had a gizmo in lab where 1 steel ball was shot out by a spring while the other dropped through a hole, all on the same rod triggered by the same mechanism. No matter how fast you shot the ball out, they hit the ground at the same time. Gravity acts the same no matter any other component of velocity or rest: it accelerates anything at 9.81 m/s/s toward the center of the earth. And for this discussion, the point of reference is the planter, not a stationary bystander.

But, all this stuff I say, it is true that it assumes no bumps, steady speed, no jostling across stubble, nothing. So Deere's new brush belt holds it on course "no matter the speed and attitude", so it will work great. I think it's cool. And I also know I'll never own 1 ha ha.

Cheers man, been fun.
 
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