The Combine Forum banner
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Getting a new to me drill this year. Case ATX 5012 with concord style packers and edge on shanks. I really like the way these drills perform and they are very popular in our area. Trying to decide on which opener to go with.

I am weighing the pros and cons of the Dutch Paired row vs a 3/4" single shoot atom jet. I know these are very different openers, but what are the benefits people are seeing in one style vs the other?

I grow Spring and Winter Wheat as well as peas and barley. No canola, although it is not out of the realm of possibility. Have Clay to Clay loam soils in Northern MT.

Is anyone out there seeing a yield bump from the paired row?

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,989 Posts
When the Concord came out they used a sweep with openers that would divert the seed in a wide ribbon. Concord would tell you that seeding in a ribbon vs a narrow point was a significant yield advantage. The paired row opener in my mind gives you the option to place large amounts of fert safely as well as having a ribbon like seed placement. Both have pros and cons. Biggest cons with a paired row opener is a larger fractured seed bed with a greater chance of stepping (or burying the front row with more dirt) because of more soil displacement.
There are a lot of arguments to be made. Neighbours farm at least 45000 acres have 50ft 10" Concords and Bourgault paralink drills. Was told by the guy that ran the combine when they checked the side with the old Concord vs Bourgault paralink with the narrow point that the Bourgault crop looked better and expected to be better (you know a 20000 drill vs a 300000 drill). He said the Concord side was 10bu/acre better. Who knows in a dry year maybe the results would be flipped.
I know one farmer who owns a seed hawk and a few Concords. They will only use the Seedhawk to plant oilseeds, they do not plant cereals with it. Their field results suggest they consistently give up 2-3bu/acre with a 3/4' knife vs paired row. Im sure other guys would argue the opposite. The types of crops you grow, soil, as well as the contour of your land can all be a factor.
My last Concord I used an atom jet paired row and was happy. I have an 1830JD with dutch paired row. Seeded 3 crops with it and have not been disappointed at all. I prefer the Dutch system over the Atom jet. Dutch low draft move a little less dirt and have better penetration resulting in less planing and a more even seed depth. They do plug easier I find.
Nothing wrong with a Concord lots of acres seeded with them here. When its wet there is nothing better. Try and get it levelled good and it'll grow a crop as good as anything.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,951 Posts
We run a late concord (just before CIH bough them) 60' drill on 12" spacings. We run Farmland 3.5" spreader boots and backswept knives for fertilizer placement below the seed...

Definitely a better crop stand compared to a narrow knife in cereals and pulses. Really like it's job in wheat and oats. Plants have more room to grow in the row but space for light and air between rows.

Wouldn't want to run a narrow knife again. I'll try and find some pics of our stand.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,063 Posts
We run the dutch universal series 3.5 inch paired row with a gumbo tip that puts the fertilizer 3/8 of a inch lower. We like the opener. It gives us a 4 inch seed row on 12 inch spacing. The knives are attractive when it is wet but in cereal you are likely going to give up yield. In pulses I do not think it would matter. Canola I am not sure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,989 Posts
Has anyone done a non biased yield trial between a 1895 or 3710 vs hoe drill?
Nobody here is using disc drills. Only one family I know of that tried to make it work, think they seeded one crop, not many sold so not much support could be the reason they had a poor crop and went away from. Most of what we farm would be considered gumbo so between the hair pinning and trench not closing wasn't a good fit. I have wanted to try seeding canola or durum on lentil stubble with one of these, or basically have one to experiment with in our soils. This is just our area and I know disc drills would be extremely common in ND.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,506 Posts
We run a small bourgalt 5710 with 3.5" spread tips on 9.8" spacing. This allows us to put more fertilizer down with the seed and I also use ESN. This gets us to about 200 lbs per acre equivalent rate which is about all I would ever invest in a crop.

Its made things very simple for us. One pass fertilizing, no handling liquid and no broadcasting.

I often times increase the seed rate by about 10% (except for canola) and have really upped my yields and stand. The spread tips shoot seed across the entire width between furrows and also some up on the sides of the furrow as well so more seeds have more place to go and fertilizer doesn't burn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for all the responses! I am actually going away from a JD Disc Drill. Too much hair pinning and I don't like how slow the crops come up especially in a cold, wet spring like we had this yr.

When seeding peas with the paired row, do you send the seed down the fert shoot?

Thanks for the pictures Christian! How is the seed placement with those farmlands'? By the looks of your pictures it looks to be good, nice crop!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
451 Posts
Bochephus-

Does your concord have edge on shanks?
If it does- I'm blowing out 60 Dutch paired row 3.5"
With 3/8 open bottom double shoot openers universal type
Came off a 6012 ATX
Mint shape

Could meet u @ border
There still on machine, could email pics if u want -
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Concord does have edge on shanks, any reason for getting rid of those openers Keldi? Still have not pulled the trigger on which opener to get.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
233 Posts
I prefer using a narrow opener with an MRB on our(traditionally) drier soils - leaves more trash intact, smoother field finish and no worries about the shelves not forming right for the seed... That being said, on a flexi coil unit without the MRB's the side banding boots will give you so much more flexibility on fertilizer rates and singe pass seeding that it will likely make up for the increased disturbance. Dutch and Atom Jet definitely better openers than the flexi coil stealth.........
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top