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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
DEAR COMBINE FORUM:

As many of our farmers know that often agriculture products feel like a scam... as I even thought myself... and as someone who is a "salesman" for the product, (if you read my other thread, I don't care if I sell a box), I find myself looking at a product that I now have to use every year on my farm...

Sincerely,
This guy....

After two years of trials, I have to continue with some observations...
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
If you are not familiar, pivot bio proven is a microbiolical that is applied infurrow with the corn seedling and adheres to the plants roots and grows in a symbiotic relationship.

As the plants roots grow, the bacteria grows right along with the plant producing ammonia that is fed directly into the plants roots in a form the plant can immediately take up..

REALTY..
The biologicals integrate to become part of the plant and stimulate plant growth,(larger root mass, more root fibers, larger diameter stalk, larger leaf tissue, longer stay green, full season nitrogen production).

DRAW BACK
As the microbs are living breathing organisms they have a tendency of being a little touchy.
Have limited shelf life. The bacteria needs to be brewed and distributed in a relative short period of time.

Have an aversion to salty fertilizer. If you can apply the fertilizer directly on the seed, the microbs will live, but only for a short period of time. 10-34-0 is on the cusp and often will kill most of the bacteria in 8 hours. 80 ortho product is going to be a must..

They need an actively growing plant. As a no-till farmer we saw a plant drag in no-till corn on corn. With the cold of Northern Wisconsin also being an issue, the spring so a "drag" effect on the corn plants. Mostly the early planted corn saw the issue. The second week of planting which was the 15th of May had much better results as it warmed up.
I believe the cold slowed the corn down and hindered the colonization of bacteria on the plant. Also being corn on corn, the biome which was in the sold was not conducive to this years corn. The carbon penalty effects corn and also having to now support new biological group took its toll on the early corn. And it shows. Will that corn yield better having applied the product, likely yes, but it struggled all year.

REALTY
With application with the planter directly in-furrow, I feel I have been able to eliminate a tassel time frame nitrogen application.

DRAWBACK..
nitrogen will no longer be your limiting factor when it comes to yield.
As I have seen in some other field testing, this product has show that extra potash and phosphate that was applied to a field of corn on corn is showing a yield increase over the adjacent corn on corn field with similar soil type.
It was applied 200lbs 7-7-37 as I had planned to plant it in soybeans.

This is deceiving, one could say, you just need more P and K to reach higher yeilds... that may be true, but until having applied piviot bio, I didn't have the root growth and yield potential.
This next year I will be running more popup starter then I had in the past to attempt to push yields further.

Realty
Pivot Bio N40 is the new product, and as any product comes to market and you get out of the testing stages there will be a price increase. But from what I am seeing two years in a row, it will pay off.

I was not all that happy with it, as it was a marginal increase to where return on investment may be break even, it is now a product we need to be more serious about as fertilizer prices are on the way up with no looking back..
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
REALTY
The sales pitch from a farmers standpoint sucks..
Sell it based on being able to produce as much crop with less Nitrogen...

DRAWBACK
I DONT THINK LIKE I SHOULD EVER CUT BACK..

ANSWER!!!! this is important.
As my second year with the old product of piviot bio proven, (original formula) my management in the future will have to change.
First... Soil Temperature is king.
If you are full tillage or have consistent so Temperature after you plant where the microbes will colonize and the corn plant will continue to grow to emergence, you will be in good shape..
In colder conditions where the seedling sits in the soil for a period of time, the biotic can and will die back and have a delay before populations can rebuild.
Its not something you can expect all the time, but I put this product in some of the worst condition I would have ever expected and it looks to have fallen flat.. but when you get freezing rain and frost May 29th... and have to replant 300 acres of soybeans... that might have had more to do with it..
Give your corn plant the best possible start...

INCREASE YOUR PLANT POPULATION....
Many farmers have experimented increasing and populations and have found in the past there was a limiting effect where yields eventually slowed or reversed.
As we often plant 32,500 to 33,000.. with notil into soybean stubble i will be looking to run 34,000 as the 33,000 population has almost every cob putting kernels all the way out to the tip of the cob. This tells me I need to push populations to increase yeild.
In the past, it just would cause the corn plants to have spindly stalks and the yield was no better. But I am seeing larger stalk diameter and healthier plants at already higher plant population.

With the addition of Pivot Bios products you will find that the corn will support higher yields.

So instead of looking at saving money, increase your yields.

This next year I will be running 5 gallons less of 28% as part of my plan, but increasing 3-18-18 seed applied popup fertilizer to help balance some potential deficiency.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I'll try and get back to this thread a few more times..

Early order is a must tho, because they need to know how much product to gear up for because production takes time, and it doesn't live forever..
I still have to spend time with the sales book and figure out all the hoops that we need to jump through.
There is an early order and an early pay discount.. which as they are small and have production costs, I understand...

So if your looking to maximize your RIO, you need to look to order soon..

CON...
They do some tracking if your order and the acres of product you use..
Instead of a volume discount, they looked to discount based on usage and % of acres applied..
This doesn't work for me because I don't have a set rotation of Corn and soybeans.. each spring will dictate where my acres will go.

SUPER PRO..
If you have leftover product, the return system is great, and I was very excited they did that.
CON....
What if I switch some acres and run out of product.... as of now, the discounts don't apply.

FYI...
They sold out every year... and will again this year. As the living product, production orders need to be early enough for the requirement to grow the product for sale.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
As far as ROI..

The longer season corn will have larger returns as the microbs will have more time to produce nitrogen for the plant.

If you are planting 100 day corn, you can easily expect to yield 40lbs of plant available nitrogen.
This is also based on an expontial curve as the bacteria is producing the largest amount of nitrogen right when the plant is needing it the most..

Its going to push your yields to the next level and give you some time off.. let them work for you.
 

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I think i speak for many of us when i say..

Whhhhaaattt in the ffffffffuuuuuu??? Are u talkin bout.. .whos moderating this and hasnt tossed this yet? Pay for an ad or beat it
 

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If I recall @8850jd has been trialing this stuff for a couple of years and he's been updating this topic on his experiences. Sure it probably sounds gushing to you. But as far as I know he's not associated with whoever manufactures the stuff, and is not advertising on their behalf. @8850jd has posted for quite a few years on a variety of topics. The fact he's posted 3,483 times and is in good standing with the forum should be an indicator that he's not a spammer.
 

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I personally know 8850JD and he looked after us when we went to Oshkosh 2014 air show and we stayed at his farm as we returned his hospitably when he came to Australia a few years ago. He is far from a scammer or salesman, just a real passionate smart guy. He is only passing on his findings and this information to help other farmers. Whether you believe in these products or not is your own choice.
See James I didn't mention the strippers
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I think everyone had more fun at the race track prior to that..
But chocolate milk looked good.

As far a 3400 chats.. I had dumb younger days...

They are testing it in wheat, but its mostly for corn as of now. I will find out more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I think i speak for many of us when i say..

Whhhhaaattt in the ffffffffuuuuuu??? Are u talkin bout.. .whos moderating this and hasnt tossed this yet? Pay for an ad or beat it

He doesn't know.. read my first thread about pivot bio.. it will explain.
 

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No more than land than I am growing crop on its hard to say if I am a farmer or gardener. We ran Pivot Bio on our corn this year. Buddy is a dealer for it, I have already signed on to use it next year. We did not try and do any trials or testing with it, we had so many other trials/tests we were doing I was out of trials to give. I do know another farmer who is somewhat of a mentor to me and he is using it on over 2k acres of corn. He does a lot of research himself and if he thinks its a good thing then I am not going to question him and I am using it as well but I do have a question for 8850jd, I am not arguing pivot bio doesn't give us 40lbs lets say of nitrogen, my question is if we get 40 from it when is this 40 used? When is it available? You are going to run 5 gallon less 28% next year, will that be left out during planting, left out during a side dress at around V4 or left out when doing a second side dress pre tassel? I am not arguing or trying to be divisive I want to understand it, if I trim 5 gallon off at V4 then I have to assume Pivot Bio is going to make up the difference post V4, if I trim the amount of nitrogen I put on with the planter than I assume it will carry me till I side dress at V4 or later? If I plant 110 day corn does it make me .36 lbs of nitrogen a day?
 

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Bunch of foo-foo dust.
If I recall @8850jd has been trialing this stuff for a couple of years and he's been updating this topic on his experiences. Sure it probably sounds gushing to you. But as far as I know he's not associated with whoever manufactures the stuff, and is not advertising on their behalf. @8850jd has posted for quite a few years on a variety of topics. The fact he's posted 3,483 times and is in good standing with the forum should be an indicator that he's not a spammer.
he’s a salesman for the stuff. Seems a little overboard but just keep scrolling by if you don’t like it I guess.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Bunch of foo-foo dust.


he’s a salesman for the stuff. Seems a little overboard but just keep scrolling by if you don’t like it I guess.
Gushing.... you must work with some amazing salesman.
I actually was not going to buy the stuff this year because they increased my price to the point where I began to question if I could afford it.
It wasn't until I start reading about fertilizer prices that I ordered more.

And as a "salesman" read what I am talking about and then go Google pivot bio proven...
This is no sales pitch, as its rather opposite of what they talk like..

I see it as your going to be exposed to this... don't go in unaware.
I have to break down Tin Man's comment and go point for point... and there is alot there that will likely be negative to the stuff.
 

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I should ad the guy I bought it from said pivot bio was going to require Covid vaccine to sell the product. Not sure if they stuck to that line but it is no business of theirs what their private contractors do. Not knocking 8850s experience but my feelings about pivot bio is like that of indigo ag. East coast big money who wants to sound edgy amd get us Midwestern guys money while telling their friends they are stopping climate change or some joke like that. The people who make the stuff never lobby for what is in farmers best interests.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I used it with no positive results found. I’m in 80 day corn country.

That is what I am seeing also.. and I stated... there is also many other factors that will cause the product to basically do nothing..
Either it died in application, or you put it in something it wasn't supposed too.

They "say" it produces nitrogen... but It has to pull the nitrogen from the air? But the microbes grow on the roots... which are in the soil... so the nitrogen that it pulls from the air has to be in the soil....

I have a strong feeling that it may not be creating anything, but making a better pathway into the plant...
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Any A-hole who says you have to get the covid shot...
Seriously.... I don't know whether to laugh or start loading my guns. The only people getting sick from covid are the ones getting the shots... almost like its in the shot... hmmm.

Tin man... if your looking to pull some nitrogen back, pull it back at your Pre-tassel application and your V5.. a little from both. If you can do some testing, try a small field not doing any tassel application.

From the corn production standpoint. You need your soil available nitrogen when the plant is forming cob.
The microbes are going to be processing nitrogen into the plant and effecting growth as you may have seen. But don't take away from your early applications as long as you can avoid de-nitrification.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I opened the sales brochure this morning that I am working with... and they have a does and don't about selling....

Don't use yield as your primary measure of the product performance...

Bull... thats all I can say about that...

If your corn is under piviot, and or you can spoon feed the crop... this IS a waste of money... because we as farmers measure everything based on yield.

The microbes need time... they operate on an exponential curve... the more time, the more activity they have..
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Another thing I saw with my early planted corn...
My outside rows didn't get post applied nitrogen..
Where I believe much of the early nitrogen leached away, THE CORN DIDN'T GET TWO FEET TALL...

This observation was important as I saw it last year also..

Please follow the logic..

Soybean rhizomes feed on the soybean roots and produce ammonia that helps the soybeans grow...

I BELIEVE, the product is actually feeding on the corn plants themselves and producing ammonia as they grow.
When I put the corn in a position, the microbes fed on the plant and with no available nitrogen source to pull from,(corn on corn) and other stresses on the plant... it was a strain and detriment.
As the corn plant actively starts to grow it overcomes any ill effects due to the plant outgrowing the negatives.
After that point the overall ammonia production outweighs the negative.
 
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