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Re: 9600 powerchip

Pyrometer, also known as an Exhaust Gas Temperature gauge (EGT) should be installed with such a high power chip in my opinion. It measures your exhaust temperature so you know how hot the motor is going. Turbo's run off the exhaust gas and if they get to hot, you'll have premature turbo failure because the bearings can't handle the heat.

You want to mount it on cylinder #1 of your motor on the manifold..

as far as gauges, you could go with a basic needle readout like this:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail....15&autoview=sku

Or with an easy to read LED gauge like this:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail....5&autoview= sku
 

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Re: 9600 powerchip

I'm gunna disagre with ebert on one thing... drill and tap the hole just down stream of the exahaust side of the turbo outlet...fairly close too, cause your temps rapidly decrease the further from the turbo you get...

I would think about right here would be a pretty good spot

 

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Re: 9600 powerchip

Sevral things to look at here.... #1 any horsepower modification increase should justify the installation of an EGT Gauge....( cheap insurance in my opinion ) I'll preface this with I don't have any combine experience, but a lot of certs elsewhere.
Inline engines I generally install the probe " pre-turbo " due to you'll get the most accurate reading there. NOTE: Be very cautious when drilling and tappping the hole not to dislodge metal into the exhaust as this can damage the turbo on the way out.
On V type engine I've always installed the probe " aft-turbo " but as close as possible......I generally see about a 200 to 250 degree drop in temps across the turbo so adjust Max reading as necessary... ie.. if max temp states 1500, then I'd say 1300 or 1250 with the probe " aft-turbo "
On a V type motor if you place the probe in " one " side of the engine manifold, your not going to pick up the temp of the other side.....( if there was ever an issue with just one side )

You'll also be able to find the sweet spot / power range with the EGT gauge.
 

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Re: 9600 powerchip

Sorry,, missed the most important part of the whole point........you won't " melt or hurt a turbo first " These things can withstand a couple thousand degrees plus in most instances... Engine internals will be the first thing to go.. ie piston melt-down.. heads gaskets etc....much more expensive than a turbo.
 

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Re: 9600 powerchip

The only units I've used are made by Autometer.... my lack of knowledge comes by the way of distance from where you need to mount the gauge to where the probe needs to go into the exhuast?? you can not cut or add to the wiring of the probe... it creats it's own current and is a pre-determined length of wire ( comes in or as a kit ) use only the units that you install into the exhaust.....just purchase the kit with enough lead on the probe..
 

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Re: 9600 powerchip

Unfortunately that is where I'm lacking experience in the combine applications......light duty trucks are generally about 40 to 60 hp gain in a working or tow mode....80 to 110 hp gain when not working the vehicles and playing......due to elevated EGT temps on the higher hp settings
 

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Re: 9600 powerchip

I run chips in both my 9610s and last year we melted #1 piston down in one machine.Running 30 % is a little risky,we also have pyrometers from bullydog they tell you if installed pre turbo 1200 deg,post turbo 1050 deg either way it is suppose to be mounted 4" from turbo. Ours failed at 950 deg but it was cool out late at night which makes a diff to.We now run only 20 % which is still lots of power.
 

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Re: 9600 powerchip

Apr 16, 2008, 8:12pm, deerefixer wrote:Wouldnt you want it on the manifold? Your gases are gonna be the hottest coming right out of the cylinder. My friend with a hopped up Duramax has one on the manifold and one on the pipe off of the turbo and in that application there is a 150 degree difference when he is really rodding on it...

I agree. On an I-6 it should be manifold side right before the turbo. I also would not run anything more than 20%. That's all I sell to my customers. 10% is not enough to be worth the money.
 

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Re: 9600 powerchip

Getting rid of the factory muffler and going with straight pipe is a sure way to drop egts, I would estimated around 175 F. degree difference. Dirty air filters doesnt help temps much either. Stock 9600 air filters are only rated for a 160 HP engine in perfect conditions, Ive changed all mine over to help it breathe.
 

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Re: 9600 powerchip

You mean 260? Or are you saying the stock filter isn't good enough? Changed yours over to what?

1992 Model Changes:
9600 gets Hp increased to 260.

How's the straight pipe/air filter thing you were working on going?
 

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Re: 9600 powerchip

I understand what HP the different 9600s came with, ive owned plenty. Have you ever looked carefully at a 9600 air cleaner assembly? First things first, deere screwed up by reducing the dirty air side of the air cleaner housing to 4.5" to have a large enough tray so the stock ejecter muffler would have enough time to scavange out the debris from the air stream. Clean air outlet from the housing is only 5". ALso there are two different part numbers for mufflers on a 9600 and some machines didnt recieve the correct muffler according to their horsepower option. One muffler is rated at 190 HP the other 253 depending on which year corn machine you have.
Most air cleaner housings usually have a larger dirty air inlet size than clean air outlet, however deere is backwards.
I went on all my machines to a Donaldson G150092 radial seal air cleaner assembly that has a 7" dirty air inlet and a 6" clean outlet wich is rated for over 300 HP which is just about where I run them at with chips. My 9650 is over 300 factory and has the same mods.
Also in most conditions the stock air intake system of a 9600 which draws its dirty air from the radiator housing usually causes filter capacity to severley drop within 6 hrs of run time.
Stock air cleaners are just under the engine requirements with the reduced inlet size, leaving no room for dirty filters.
I also run Syclone ejective precleaners on top of a optimax second stage ejective precleaner that uses an aftermarket Donaldson ejective exhaust pipe, used instead of the stock muffler. I have twice the ejective vacume with my setup belling up to 5" exhust over the stock muffler which I found is designed backwards, meaning that there is a baffle after the venturi inside the muffler, which is a no-no.
I have all my machines converted already and if I get time before start up Ill post pics of my changes.
Yes the engines are louder outside but when the cab door closes and you take it to the field there is no more noise than before. Im sure there is a fuel savings gain with these setups and no doubt the engine will run cooler, not just eliminating the muffler but allowing the enigine to have intake capacity for the horsepower requirement and a filter that will remain clean for twice the run time before clean out.
 

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Re: 9600 powerchip

Interesting. I would like to see pictures but I get the idea.

Quick search turned that up, not the greatest picture, but seems more similar to the air filter setup on an 8000 series tractor.

http://www.sdiesel.com/product/item-C856FC9F-379B-4FDB-92E9-981F97155639.aspx

I wonder if the extra filter/precleaner/ejective pipe is what is needed for the straight pipe to work right, since in that other thread about straight piping a combine he said it was blowing back into his filter. Your setup should have a lot better suction than just removing the muffler.
 

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Re: 9600 powerchip

I have an 8420 and this setup Im using is not even close to OEM, other than the elements being radial seal and no longer center bolt, Yes. The straight pipe that the other fella on this forum was merely a pipe with another pipe welded into it it is by no means a venturi and yes it would let exhaust enter the filter. A check valve is still needed with any ejective system either Muffler or Donaldson ejector tube for im guessing some obvious reasons like if water enters the exhaust system it cannot be blown into the filter and the engine sucks in water also at startups and shutdowns the engine creates different kinds of pulses which can cause exhaust to enter the filter area.
Removing the muffler and adding a straight pipe does not add suction for the aspirator hose but in fact has a negative effect and you get pressure.
My OEM setup measured .75 inches of vacume and the custom setup made almost 2.75 inches. Infact the OEM aspirated muffler had no more vacume at WOT 2350 than idle.
This link is a variation of the intake setup that I used but not the same.
http://www.sy-klone.com/OPTIMAX.htm
 

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Re: 9600 powerchip

Ok in my experience pre-turbo is always better no matter if it is a V motor or a inline. We have 5 powerstrokes on the farm and all of them have a pyro pre turbo. Yes you can mount it post turbo but it will never be as accurate. You can say it is a 250 degree difference, but your just guessing. I have seen the difference go from 100-300 degrees depending on the load on the engine.

As for the metal shavings drill it and tap it. Then take a shop vac and suck as much out of the hole as you can. If you have a small magnet or a magnet tipped screwdriver you can fish it around in there too. After that then start the motor up and just let it idle for a few minutes. This will allow the turbo to suck out any small shavings and discard them. Then finish your install. You can also use grease on the drill bit to catch the shavings. I have installed many pyros pre turbo with no problems.

As for the straight pipe that is the best way to go. All you have to do is weld the tube for the aspirator at an angle to the flow of exhaust. Heck I have seen many mounted perpendicular to the stream of exhaust and have no ill effects. Our old 2188 came like that out of the factory.

Another thing you will melt the valves or pistons before the turbo. If your turbo has a wastegate you want to adjust it to allow more boost too.Alot of people don't understand this. If you add more fuel you need to add more boost. If its done right and you watch your gauges 30% is ok. If not you will risk melting a piston.

Lastly I have been modifying engines for quite awhile combines, tractors, pickups, and semis. They all are diesels and all react to the same basic principles. You can never have to much power. Just be smart. I hope this helps. If you have anymore questions I will be happy to answer them.
 

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Re: 9600 powerchip

To add one more thing to Big A's statement........
I'm still not a big fan of pre-turbo on V-8's unless you can stab a probe on " each side " of the engine so you have an accurate reading per side....none the less I've seen it numerous times..... but on to what I was going to add....

Another way to drill / tap the manifold if one is worried about getting metal shavings into the turbo area ... would be to start the vehicle and let it run. Generally there is enough pressure in the exhaust, that any shavings are going to be blow out the hole while your drilling.......( obvious caution, it's going to be hot )
 

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Re: 9600 powerchip

Good one....I forgot about that one. It does work though. Just take your pick.....


One additional thing....Alot of the new Deeres were having problems melting pistons on stock programming. I don't know if the 9600's engine is in that bunch or not. Low quality parts I'm guessing. I haven't seen this in the CaseIH or others.....Just be careful and watch the gauges.
 

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Re: 9600 powerchip

If deere is melting pistons its a engine management system programming problem not a part quality problem. Factory programming can be to hot just the same as aftermarket.
 

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Re: 9600 powerchip

All my experiece is what I'd consider light duty....w/a lot in the powerstroke / cummins arena.

I'd agree and that certianly seems to be the industry mis-nomer... that you'll melt a turbo down before the engine... NOT SO......Pistons / head-gaskets / valves are always on the hit-list way before a tubo.....I've seen on dyno's where the tubine housing is almost a yellowish color that you can see through it with no turbo issues.

Does a bone stock factory Combine have an EGT / Pyro gauge in it ?
 

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Re: 9600 powerchip

No bone stock factory combines don't have a pyro in them yet.
Tractors do but not combines.

Also if Deere factory programming is melting things down then it is a low quality problem. If it supposed to put out XXX amount of hp from the factory and it does, but melts things down also. I would say that Deere needs to upgrade their parts to handle the rated stock hp. Sounds like they might have been trying to cut a few $ to save money, but it ended up costing them more. I've seen this before with other company's. How can the factory programming be to hot??? If it is supposed to handle and be designed for that amount of hp how can that be to much??? If the factory programming is to hot then they need to start over and redesign the engine, or use better parts. Gives you alot of faith in their engineers huh????
 

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Re: 9600 powerchip

Don't be a troll.

No factory engine puts out exactly the nameplate power, its is a minimum power rating. You ever wonder why when you pull down a newish tractor on the dyno, they are over spec? These engines are sent right from the motor works tweaked to a minimum power, after break in, they grow --- ALL MAKES, ALL MODELS...... red, blue green, yellow.

This is normally well tolerated, but when you already have a 350+ hp from a 8-9 liter block, you dont have a lot more room to grow until you need more heat rejection. Any motor will fail.

In recent years, Deere (and others) have been less aggressive in bumping powers, expecting a certain growth after break in.


Plus, many-a-motor have been melted by hot injectors, often high quality parts that had a bad batch.

Don't be a troll. It makes me have little faith in YOU.

Troll???

You know it all huh....Does Dr.Farmer have a PHD in Engines? No faith in me ? How many engines have you worked on?

Still the fact is that if it is designed for xxxhp then it should handle xxxhp. That is it. If it can't handle it and they know after break in it will increase in hp then that should be Incorporated in the design too. Their supposed to know what their doing. Maybe you should go show them how it is done.

350hp is not that much for a 9L if it is properly designed and set up for it.

If the injectors were too hot then that is still a quality control issue. One bad batch of injectors is not the problem here. We are talking about more than just a couple of motors with bad parts.

All tractors grow as you say not just new ones.. You can put one of my Magnums on a dyno and pull it down to the rated rpm to get its rated hp. Then if you keep pulling it down it will put out more hp. It's not new.

Also one more question for the doctor....I'll use CaseIH for an example. Most every new CaseIH tractor I've seen dynoed at the dealer right off the truck has been over spec. The dealer will tell you they are known for being set hotter than they are supposed to be. Lets say 20+ hp. After it breaks in it will increase as you say. CaseIH is not having big problems keeping their engines together. Explain that? In fact my dealer has dynoed tractors with hp boxes on them. They also have had no ill effects come back because of them.

Thing is that stating all engines will fail is pointless. Everyone knows that if it is mechanical it has a breaking point. It's not if it will fail it is When will it fail, and how much will it hold. All motors will eventually fail. I'm not saying that they won't. I'm saying that besides the fact of a defective part if you watch your gauges and use some commonsense you should be fine.

On the comment about many of motor have been melted with hot injectors. Well if they watched their gauges that wouldn't have happened, and if its factory tuned then something is defective. IE the injectors were not in spec.

Got it there Troll guy????
 
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