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Re: cr960 power

Hey,

for the horsepower I would just assume with a rotary that no matter what the more power you have the faster you'll be able to go, so I assume CNH just wanted their combine to go a little faster. By the way what did they boost it up to.

As far as weight goes, I talked to a trucker who was hauling an AFX8010, when I asked him if they were a pain to haul because they were so heavy he told me, that they really weren't heavier then anybody else, and the only combines that were really heavy were the lexions.
 

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Re: cr960 power

The 9060 (not 960 for 07) did get a small power boost as well as new fuel maps for the new engine. The combine with 900 series tires and mostly empty fuel tank weighs in at around 35-36,000 lbs. A little more with duals and a full tank of fuel.
 

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Re: cr960 power

the new fuel maps are a joke. running a 9060 now. has cummings 9 L instead of iveco. The new motor is way short of power and is burning about 17.5 to 18 gallons per Hr.
 

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Re: cr960 power

They did run a different torque curve on the CR960 IVECO 7.8L powered engine. Actually they installed different software on the CCM2 which instructed the engine controller to use a different set of fuel maps already installed on it from the factory. It does run better. However there are some other things that can cause low power but not show up as an error or fault. For instance the boost pressure/temp senders can report higher than actual boost pressure which causes the controller to cut back fuel to avoid overfueling the engine (overboosting that is) The controller simply natually adjusts the charted fuel supplied to react to boost pressure. So the sensor if reading too high will cause the engine to produce less power than it is capable of.

The CR9040 and 9060 have 9.0L Cummins CDC engines instead of genesis or IVECO since NH shut down and discontinued the Genesis engine plant and IVECO dropped the 7.8L Cursor when they went to tier3 and replaced it with a 8.7L Cursor.
 

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Re: cr960 power

I was aware of all the changes on the 960s as you have said. I should clareify. The new software may have helped the 960 some, but did not solve the lack of power. At least it was good on fuel. I was lead to think that all the power problems were to be solved with the 9060 and the 9L Cummins. I have been running the 9060 for 5 days in Wheat and it has less power than the 960 I ran before it. The unloading boost is not there with the cummins and I loose .5 to 1 mile hr. when I unload on the go. NewHolland confermed this and said it will be comming in later production. The real kicker is the fuel consumtion of the 9L It has averaged 17 gal per hr and peaked at 18.5 for one day, my TRs burn 11 gal hr. It burns almost 60% more fuel and only does about 20% more harvesting. The thing I want to know is why they put this engine in when Case has had the same lack of power and fuel economy in the 325 4wheel drive tractor and the other models they have it in. Thank for shedding some light as to why they dropped the Iveco. back to the 960 boost. The inacurate boost sensing is because of the stay voltage from the altenator wire that was next to the boost sensor wire. A simple rerouting of the wire fixed that.
 

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Re: cr960 power

Littlejohn, that is really bad. I can't imagine that much fuel consumption for any combine, regardless of capacity.

It is true that the larger/more powerful a combine's engine is, the better the fuel economy it will have. It's much the opposite of what we see in automotive power. A large, seemingly "overpowered" combine engine will not have to overwork itself, which explains the savings in fuel.
 

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Re: cr960 power

Combiness, got news from dealer this morning. They have ordered a power chip and are going to adjust the waste gate on the turbo also. I guess we will see if that helps. He talked to his territory service manager and it turns out I am not the only one haveing this complant. Both the other 9060's my dealer sold are having the same issue with power and fuel. I think the chip will only be a pacth untill something more can be done. If the chip even Helps!
 

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Re: cr960 power

welcome to the world of Teir III engines........

Jono
 

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Re: cr960 power

the first post in this thread is easily answered, engine power has very little to do with the actual moving of the machine, it is the power of the hydro and how the machine is geared. Lexions are a very heavy machine (16-20t) but they don't use a lot of power moving. I have had times when trying to harvest hilly fields and the hydro just isn't strong enough to pull the combine up the hill, selecting 1st gear will usually get the job done. The 960's in australia have a faster working gear than the lexion, the lexion gets about 10mph and the 960 about 11mph, can be frustrating having a 960 overtaking you in the field!!

Just looked up some weights.

Lexion 590r 19850kgs (43750lbs)
Lexion 580r 17000kgs (37500lbs)
CR 970 16706kgs (36831lbs)
AFX 8010 16148kgs (35526lbs)
CR 960 15944kgs (35150lbs)
9860 15246kgs (33541lbs)
 

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Re: cr960 power

Quote:
It is true that the larger/more powerful a combine's engine is, the better the fuel economy it will have. It's much the opposite of what we see in automotive power. A large, seemingly "overpowered" combine engine will not have to overwork itself, which explains the savings in fuel.


Not sure if i can agree here. The early Lexions, lets say the 480, had a 365hp motor and i could harvest for a full 24hr period, sometimes more doing between 800 and 1100 acres on 600 litres of fuel. I was in a field with a 9760 once and i was using pretty much half the fuel that he was. The later model 480's, the 480r, has over 400hp but it uses quite a bit more fuel. At a guess i would say that i can do about 3/4's of the work with the same amount of fuel i use in a 480.
 

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Re: cr960 power

The essence of what you say can be true, an underpowered machine working very hard will use more fuel than the same machine with a bigger motor working less. I guess what i was trying to say is that there is a lot more to fuel economy than horse power. As for loads and such, my example between a 480 and 480r is a good one because it is in the same crops, same fronts, same weights. The fuel usage of the 9760 scared me because they weigh nearly 4000lbs lighter than these lexion's.
 

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Re: cr960 power

greet feed back guys thanks. I have leard a little more to day. we got showered out yesterday after noon and did some talking around this morning. we got kicked of at 3 this afternoon but it got tuff and wet as soon as the sun went down. It seems as jono sumed it up best. I have a friend who works in case Tech training I ran him down this morning and asked him about the chip Idea He said he knows of several MX or MAG tractors that this has been done to and it helped there. He also said that the biggest resson for the problems were a result of meeting Tier 3 specs. To get emmisons down they are using More BTUs to burn exhaust gases and less is getting used for power. He is of the opion they should have figured out how to keep the Iveco. His exsperence with 8010 which by the way is around 40 more Horse or more only burns 12 to 14 gal per hr with the 10.3 Liter in it. So I hope my chip gets here tomorow. Will let you all know how it works.
 

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Re: cr960 power

I would not look to power chips as being the answer. May depend on the fuel system but on older MX's with Cummins CAPS system you will have a constant "overpumping error". On these the chip just fools the controller as to the pressures in the accumulator. The controller responds by increasing the activation of the inlet solinoids above the high pressure pumping elements. However you must follow the basic law of physics, "it takes 4X pressure to double flow." Because the chip only fools the pressure reading it does not affect the durration that the controller activates the fuel delivery solinoid it does make for more power but also increases fault readings.

It may be different on the fuel athority fuel rail type system but I bet the chip works the same way.

There was a place selling special machined injectors for the CAPS system. These had larger orafices that caused more fuel to be delivered per delivery solinoid pulse. Not likely out there for fuel rail systems though.
 
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