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So I have heard a rumor about the Bi-Rotor from Deere, my contact
would not really say much but its looking like late 2009 early 2010, all he could say is that, but might could give more details at a later time, this could get interesting. We also talked about Deere's new 42 foot Daper in the works as weel as a corn header that folds, I know both have been out from other companys so I knew this was coming. I wonder if they will really bring it out??
 

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It only makes sense to take the time to perfect a product rather than rushing it to market before it's ready. Definitely a tried and true Deere trait.
 

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Yea, it really burns my a$$ when deere copies others hard work and ideas and then sells it to their brainwashed loyal customers. Especially since Deere is the only company who does this...NOT.

Is it just me, or does it appear that CIH had a 8000 Deere in their R and D department when they into'd the new MX's...talk about a blatent copy. Get your self righteous heads out of your...well you know.
It's called competition, and it's all good. Sheesh.
 

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I've heard Deere was going to sue Case over the copy of their new corn head..... then Case looked at Deere's balers and the claim was dropped... What about the Hagie sprayer copying both Case and Deere? My point being we've reached as far as technology is available now it's up to perfection to give the edge. Everyone has a rotor now, who can make it the best?
 

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Quote:It only makes sense to take the time to perfect a product rather than rushing it to market before it's ready. Definitely a tried and true Deere trait.

That trait has done wonders for the likes of the 8x30 series 4x4's of the 70's, the 955 V8, the 8000 series row crops, 9000T undercarriage, 50 series STS combines, 4920 sprayers, most 24 row + DB planter tool bars (hydraulic phasing problems out the wazoo since the 7200 series), large square balers and lest we forget most of the Greenstar products. I know I've missed something. Anyone else?
 

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Quote:"I know I've missed something. Anyone else?"

Yes, Deere's growing market share.


Deere's gross market share has not grown significantly in the past three years.
 

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Re: Off-Topic

Quote:What about the Hagie sprayer copying both Case and Deere?

You might want to check that one out. Last time I looked Hagie had a front boom... Deere & Case both in back.

In fact, Hagie was the 1st company to ever build a commercial self-propelled. The only thing remotely similar is the cab which Hagie gets from the same company that builds the Deere cabs.
 

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Every color is looking at the others fore some ideas and it will always be like that. Every color has some problems with their products when they arrive.

Wayne Gretzky once said If i knew everything there is to know about hockey, I wouldnt learn more.

Same with everybody else (colorwise anyway), everybody has room for improvements.

I myself am sort of a cnh fan. But i dont think they make the best of everything. If i would have a choice, I would pick a HHP buhler for a 4WD, Gleaner for a combine, MT700 Cat For row crop. 7030 for smaller row crop. NH Boomer for a yard tractor. SPX case for a sprayer. I guess i cant really say i favor anybody.

P.S. Is it true that John deere bought the rights for the CTS from versatile. I heard a couple of times, but i am not sure.
 

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John Deere bought the rights from Versatile but it may have actually been the STS concept. The versatile combines, especially in barley, had more capacity than you can imagine.

Hold on I think it was the CTS concept they bought from Versatile, but the STS concept was largely developed and tested in Northeastern Saskatchewan by PAMI, for Deere. Problem is that the engineers working for Deere, CNH, and all farm equipment manufacturers is that most of them have never even sat on a tractor, so they just beef things up and make small changes. Most new concepts can be traced back to a farmer and not an equipment manufacturer... that's the way I see it anyway but I am not claiming to be 100% right so don't flip out disagreeing with me.
 

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It almost makes me laugh the way that some of you are so bent on bad-mouthing the manufacturers. Do you own preferred stock or something? If JD has a CNH tractor in their shop (or visa-versa), and they are tearing it apart, trying to see if there is anything on it they can use..does this affect your bottom line? Will you see less income this month as a result?
We can have a spitting contest all day long about who's machine is better, and the bottom line is that ALL of the manufacturers are GETTING FAT off of us! Back in early '70's, wheat was bringing over $4 at the elevator, and a new combine was about $14k...Now, fast-forward to today: time-before last that I sold wheat, it was in the $3 range, and a combine costs $190k. THIS is what we should be arguing about..NOT amongst ourselves, but with the manufacturers, or SOMEBODY!! My grandfather, who started the family farm that I now run, once told me a story of not-so-long ago: He had a neighbor that owned ONE section of farm land. With that ONE section, he lived a good, descent life, owned a nice home, his wife did not have to work outside the home, and he put his two daughters through college...ALL on ONE section of farm land, and a few mother cows...
I am a realist, and I have been to college. I know that things have changed, the dollar has been hyper-inflated, and devaluated against the Euro...I know all of that...but not that much time has gone by since the story above...Things have gotten WAY out of hand! It is debatable whether or not the big manufacturers are even taking us family farms into consideration at all when they build and/or think-up these new machines! I believe that they are all 'leaning' toward the way of the corporate farm, or at least the VERY BIG farm, and giving little to no consideration to the small to moderate farm operation. How bad do things have to get before something gives? Deere and CNH, both, are re-doing their dealerships, and are really pushing for everyone to "just upgrade" to something newer. Notice how hard it is to get parts for something that is over about 5 years old? It's d**n near impossible around here, anymore...Yeah, they can order the parts, and run a freakin' mail order business...but that doesn't suit me!
Personally, I like JD's combine (I'm still with a walker machine). I currently own JD tractors (4 of them); but I traded a 2wd Magnum tractor several years ago for a JD MFWD, and really wish I had gone with a CIH MFWD. I have always owned JD MaxEmerges, but I traded recently, and now have a Case planter...just trying to say and show that I am not dipped in green. Yeah, right now, I have more green than red on the farm, but that might not be the Case (pun intended) in a year or two..I go with the product that I think is best when I am trading...no matter the color..
I know that it is easy to be brand-loyal, but believe me, THEY are the ones that are laughing (all the way to the bank!). The big manufacturers quarterly [profit] reports may not always look all that good, but they don't show how much ($) they forwarded into future account(s) (R&D, etc.). I think they are doing just fine! It's the farmer that is the endangered species, here!
Inputs, no matter what they are, have gone CRAZY high...fertilizer, seed, tires, fuel, oil, equipment....you name it...it has ALL gone crazy high..all except what we are being paid for our crop..
 

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Very nice TxFarmer!!! I couldn't agree with you more what is happening to farming nowadays. Funny thing...my G-pa and dad tells the exact same story that was told to you!!! We have always been Gleaner/Versatile people but as money has gotten tighter the color red has become a lot more enticing in certain situations.
 

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Greeniron, the reports that you put the link to are not market share numbers they are profit numbers which are hugely different. Market share is the industry number of units sold in a specific size or class of tractor, combine, baler, etc. Deere has grown their market very little in the past couple of years in most classes. The profits that are shown are at the expense of the customers that have blinders on and won't look at what is the best value for the dollar, not the color that they are used to buying.

I hope Deere finally comes with the so called Bi-Rotor and finds out what it actually takes to make a concept that has not been mass produced work in the big ole real world. The STS combine is nearly the same concept that White introduced many years ago, Massey resurrected and is now marketed through the different colors of Agco. Only it has the rotor discharge that Case perfected. The bullet rotor, what a new concept, New Holland has had it and to an extent so has Case for years.

Every manufacturer has used parts and pieces from the others but the Green boys can market like no other.

Just my 2 cents worth.
 

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Quote:Yea, it really burns my a$$ when deere copies others hard work and ideas and then sells it to their brainwashed loyal customers. Especially since Deere is the only company who does this...NOT.

Is it just me, or does it appear that CIH had a 8000 Deere in their R and D department when they into'd the new MX's...talk about a blatent copy. Get your self righteous heads out of your...well you know.
It's called competition, and it's all good. Sheesh.



Deere PURCHASED this Bi-Rotor design, lock stock and separator!
What is it with all this bickering over "alleged copying" anyway?

It's THEIR COMBINE, now!!!!!!!!!!!

You all need to stop the anti Deere hate dribble or start finding some deleted posts.
 

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I started to read this thread last nite, it would of been very interesting to find if anybody knows about the combine. I have a friend that is a custom harvester and he has seen some combine from far away, dose not know what it was. As a John Deere Tech. i was going to ask the John Deere Rep., he was here today and forgot to ask him, because i was asking about to much other things, it would of been intesting to see what he would say. This thread was started about the Bi-Rotor combine and now it is like Combiness said antDeere hate thread and it should go back to if anyone knows about the Bi-Rotor. Yes i know that other maker's of farm equ. could be better or bad, but this is not what the thread was about.
 

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Well all i can remember is a guy invented this design on his 1480 up in iowa or some place like that..

And then sold it off and its been tossed around a few times if i remember right and then deere finally got it...

Also The only reason i give deere guys crap when it comes to combines is mainly because for 30 some years all we heard was a rotor wasn't as good as a walker and blahh blahh blahh

So everyone in time gets to have fun with the other....

I too would rather learn about the bi rotor and would like to see less color bashing (man you can tell ive grown alot in the past couple years)

but with that said...i like to have fun too.

I'll look for the thread about the begining of the bi-rotor and hopefully post it soon
 

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When the work was done on the bi-rotor back in the late 80's,didn't they also talk about getting rid of the clean elevater by using a rotating disc attached to the rotating cage or something like that? I also agree that the prices for new iron are out of line,even if production per acre is up.
 

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Hello txfarmer and everyone else,

It would appear that I have been labelled as smart a$$ one line poster. Some of us who really work for a living don't have the time to write ellaborate posts like some.


It is true I did write the initial couple of short anti deere posts and everyone else has taken it and run from there. The fact that there is such a lot of anti deere sentiment in the posts that have followed obviously tells me that I am not the lone ranger.

I have been involved with ag all my life in various different ways from working the family farm, to operating custom application businesses, to working as an service manager for an ag electronics company to my current life in machinery service and sales. During this time i have seen all aspects of deere machinery (good and bad) as well as the marketing spin that deere uses. What is frustrating about deere from my current perspective is the way that they cut the guts out of pricing to move machines when they get challenged on a deal, and the fact that when they are not challenged with their died in the wool green customers how they shaft them up the wazoo.

If you look at it objectively they have a great marketing machine and this is the main difference between them and the rest of the chasing pack.

Over the past twenty years I have seen the quality of deere gear (combines in particular) get worse with manufacture in all places except the US and the farmer get less for their money.

As for the bi rotor itself I to will be interested to see how it performs. We all know the principal that two smaller rotors have a larger threshing surface area than one large rotor and the smaller rotors generally run faster creating greater centrifugal forces and throwing the grain outwards thus "pre seperating" a lot of grain prior to the sieves. I personally am a big fan of the concept of twin rotor machines.

Combiness - I see that you reffered to this subject as the BR thread. I hope that wasn't a typo for the BS thread.

Jono
 

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Please stay on-topic!

I have gone back and deleted some posts on this thread, including some of my own.
First of all, the question was raised about Deere's use of this combine. Before I even read it, there was a rash of anti-Deere remarks and slams, all of which accused Deere of stealing the Bi-Rotor [and other] designs/patents. After that, it became a big brawl with even some personal attacks and so on. This is why I chose to delete such posts before this totally got out of hand.

Yes, the original post had to do with the BR combine. No, I don't know, nor have I heard any more about this machine since Deere LEGALLY PURCHASED it several years ago.

Yes, I followed the Bi-Rotor story from its earliest beginnings, too. I knew the inventor as well as some of his constituents in the overall project. It was and likely still is a magnificent machine!


If anyone here does know anything about the BR combine, by all means, please post it here!
Otherwise, color wars, brand-bashing, name-calling and other personal attacks will NOT be permitted!
 
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