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S-series Cost of operation (older machines)

9K views 50 replies 17 participants last post by  1972RedNeck 
#1 ·
For those of you who have older S-680s or S 690s I have a few questions.

I put 325+ separator hours a year on a 2014 S690 and am trying to figure out an average yearly repairs/maintenance that other people have with similar machines. I'm not including header maintenance, lease/ownership payments, Diesel/DEF, or even Deprecation... I know that all those things are part of the picture, but trying to get closer to apples to apples. Have dealer do yearly inspection, but I do all the work. Dealer gets called out during harvest 2-3 times on average

Parts and very little dealership labor for past few years
2017: $21k (about 16k parts + 5k dealer field repairs)
2018: $25k (about same but precleaner went through chopper last day of harvest so more $$$ in parts)
2019: $51k (35K in preseason parts, 10k in dealer labor, rest was more parts)

Not scared of the three year average, but am worried about the trend it is going in. If dealer was to do the work probably add 10-15k to each years bill

Are these inline with you other Deere operators out there?

How reliable are the DPF and DEF systems once they have 3000+ engine hours? Delete possible?

Switching from Deere isn't really an option right now, but emissions are off of warranty and am trying to get some ballpark figures for true cost of operation so I can make educated decisions whether to change machines or not. Any input is appreciated except for telling me to get a CLAAS...
 
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#5 ·
How many acres do you do with that machine per year? I always put repair costs into $ per acre. I’m guessing if you put 325 sep hours on you must be covering a few acres and I think your cost per acre would be similar to what our S series cost us?
 
#6 ·
For those of you who have older S-680s or S 690s I have a few questions.

I put 325+ separator hours a year on a 2014 S690 and am trying to figure out an average yearly repairs/maintenance that other people have with similar machines. I'm not including header maintenance, lease/ownership payments, Diesel/DEF, or even Deprecation... I know that all those things are part of the picture, but trying to get closer to apples to apples. Have dealer do yearly inspection, but I do all the work. Dealer gets called out during harvest 2-3 times on average

Parts and very little dealership labor for past few years
2017: $21k (about 16k parts + 5k dealer field repairs)
2018: $25k (about same but precleaner went through chopper last day of harvest so more $$$ in parts)
2019: $51k (35K in preseason parts, 10k in dealer labor, rest was more parts)

Not scared of the three year average, but am worried about the trend it is going in. If dealer was to do the work probably add 10-15k to each years bill

Are these inline with you other Deere operators out there?

How reliable are the DPF and DEF systems once they have 3000+ engine hours? Delete possible?

Switching from Deere isn't really an option right now, but emissions are off of warranty and am trying to get some ballpark figures for true cost of operation so I can make educated decisions whether to change machines or not. Any input is appreciated except for telling me to get a CLAAS...
Ok in my experience , John Deere harvest inspections have been very detailed. Usually my inspections come back in that 15 to 20 thousand. That's when we have a talk and I say ok guys seriously what really needs to be done. After that discussion, it leaves me with a bill usually around 7- 10 thousand with a good dependable combine. Of course you want your machine running in tip top shape and you dont want to cut corners on repair budgets, but dare I say a yearly payment on a S690 plus 20 grand or more in repairs must be getting pretty near the cost of a new lease. Unless you now completely own it, than it makes sense to keep it going I think anyways !
 
#9 ·
Thanks for the input.

15-20 is what I have been hearing from a few people, but they seem to be closer to 200 sep hours per year. Machine is payed off, but still considering lease. I don't do everything the inspection list says, but I figure 1 day of downtime during harvest is worth quite a bit, therefore I don't "cut corners" as you allude to in your explanation. I probably should clarify that I don't experience much downtime when treating the combine like a Hollywood diva, but I question if I'm going about this the right way(reason for the thread.). I could care less whether Machine is owned or not, just want to figure out most inexpensive way to run a JD combine.

If I extrapolate and say 30k a year is an average for my hours then I can do some math and figure from there.
 
#11 ·
One big advantage to doing off season maintenance is you have months to shop around for parts instead of having to rush into the only dealer that has what you need right now and paying whatever they want you to.
 
#21 ·
Use to be a third of the farm, but now it is down to nothing. Too much history (since late 90's) and too much water in recent years = disease factory. I hear you on the repair end though put a lot of time and dollars to keep the headers running smooth and eating the dirt from a badger hole is never good either.
 
#20 · (Edited)
You beat me to the post :)

Flax doing that much damage? Hmm, I plan to try some but have wondered why there are not that many acres of flax around.
Grew intercrop with chickpeas last year, 17 acres worth is all. I kind of like it an will try some of that again this year. Working on a screen to efficiently separate before I do much more. Lots of work for those 17 acres so far.

NW North Dakota, you must get fairly good yields there. I know if I cut 20 bushel wheat I have much less wear on a combine than 50 bushel. As with any crop.

Shop for parts, prices can way different. Different example. I ordered a drain pump for washing machine this morning. $172 for local dealer in stock. $25 off internet and be here Friday evening. OEM part I can get in a few hours or aftermarket I get in a few days. OEM almost 7 times more....
Thread on here for JD combine turbo actuator of some sort. Over $400 from JD or replace the ball ends for $15?? Takes a bit more research to get the ball ends but I am saying a few hours is worth it to me.
 
#22 ·
You beat me to the post :)

Flax doing that much damage? Hmm, I plan to try some but have wondered why there are not that many acres of flax around.
Grew intercrop with chickpeas last year, 17 acres worth is all. I kind of like it an will try some of that again this year. Working on a screen to efficiently separate before I do much more. Lots of work for those 17 acres so far.

NW North Dakota, you must get fairly good yields there. I know if I cut 20 bushel wheat I have much less wear on a combine than 50 bushel. As with any crop.
When it comes to flax I read about somebodies recipe for fertility and fungicide on this forum and took yields from 20-30+. The bigger issue is that we never got to it when it was 85 F and dry.. seems the last few years it was 45 and cloudy. I've done well on flax, so i'll keep growing it. I learn a lot of lessons the hard way.
 
#23 ·
Have been doing cost analysis and budgeting in my office last couple weeks in this cold weather. I don't think your costs are out of line with other brands. I am seeing costs rising like yours with the Claas 2014 vintage machines. As I hang on to these machines longer the repair costs seem to rise, and I don't like it either.

I have always used the inspection program with the dealer and have had the dealer do most of the recommended repairs in the past.
In 2020 we are doing most of the repairs ourselves where capable. Combines are in our shop and being stripped down this week. Need to get the repair costs under control, as they are getting quite ridiculous.
2019 year hit $8.30 per acre in repairs. 2018 was $6.80 per acre.
 
#25 ·
Have been doing cost analysis and budgeting in my office last couple weeks in this cold weather. I don't think your costs are out of line with other brands. I am seeing costs rising like yours with the Claas 2014 vintage machines. As I hang on to these machines longer the repair costs seem to rise, and I don't like it either.

I have always used the inspection program with the dealer and have had the dealer do most of the recommended repairs in the past.
In 2020 we are doing most of the repairs ourselves where capable. Combines are in our shop and being stripped down this week. Need to get the repair costs under control, as they are getting quite ridiculous.
2019 year hit $8.30 per acre in repairs. 2018 was $6.80 per acre.
Thanks for sharing. Glad i'm not only one with higher repair costs.
 
#24 ·
My repair costs on combines are about $2-3 per acre. Wonder if you know a cost per bushel? That might be even better knowledge than cost per acre? This last year I was $1.69 per acre. Bad drought for me last year so cost per bushel was around $0.063/bushel in just the combine repairs cost. Not including oil, filters, fuel, and such. New concaves in both combines was the major expense. 15% acres chickpeas, rest wheat and barley. I do all the work, I shop for parts. No break downs this year during harvest I can think of other than a few guards and sections. This cost includes guard and sections. Then again what some call the dealer to fix I fix while greasing and fueling and think nothing of it. So, I am sure I forgot a few repairs.
 
#26 ·
$/ bushels
17 $0.053
18 $0.065
19 $ 0.126

When I call the dealers it is $600 before they even do any work, so I do everything I can before making that call. 70 miles one way with two technicians in the service truck. Don't have an issue with the quality of work, but get pretty angry if they are out more than twice a year.
 
#29 ·
I have an inspection list that I do. Buddy of mine gets the green light inspection and does a lot of the work himself. I check his list every year he checks mine. The JD shop is thorough but they miss stuff too. I shop for parts most of the winter. Parts in the US are usually 13% less including exchange than here in Canada.
.
I realize guys need more capacity but I like the 670's, no re-thrasher, 9.0L engine, way less fuel and less horsepower running a lot of the same components used in a 9660STS. I probably wouldn't buy an S or STS with the hi capacity (rice style) beater. I just feel like less ingestion issues with the standard beater.

8850 it sounds like you're averaging around or over 20/acres per hour.
Are some of those costs also header? If you're including header expense and covering 7000acres/year I would say your costs aren't out of whack with the exception of 19 likely on the high end. Maybe for 20 it won't need much.
 
#31 ·
I have an inspection list that I do. Buddy of mine gets the green light inspection and does a lot of the work himself. I check his list every year he checks mine. The JD shop is thorough but they miss stuff too. I shop for parts most of the winter. Parts in the US are usually 13% less including exchange than here in Canada.
.
I realize guys need more capacity but I like the 670's, no re-thrasher, 9.0L engine, way less fuel and less horsepower running a lot of the same components used in a 9660STS. I probably wouldn't buy an S or STS with the hi capacity (rice style) beater. I just feel like less ingestion issues with the standard beater.

8850 it sounds like you're averaging around or over 20/acres per hour.
Are some of those costs also header? If you're including header expense and covering 7000acres/year I would say your costs aren't out of whack with the exception of 19 likely on the high end. Maybe for 20 it won't need much.
Next time we update it will most likely be a class 7. As long as it is built for my heavy headers the only downfall is hopper size is a little smaller. The stripper header is a game changer for horsepower requirements. My numbers include some (probably 1/2) of my header costs, but not all. I use 6 different headers and I spin the numbers a little differently for expense categories. the # of headers is also why switching to a different brand of combine isn't realistic in the short term.
 
#42 · (Edited)
We have been doing the repair ourselves the last three years,we have a excellent guy that knows deere combines doing the inspections.It has cut the cost in half but it is still insane cause parts prices are getting out of hand.Working on these machines ourselves we can see how these combines are built to cost you LOST of money in parts,Many bearing are way too small for the application and need replacing every two years.the idlers are tin ****, instead of cast and get bent,the belts don't last a quarter of the hours they used to,the advanced powercast tailboard works good but is a money pit because of being designed the way it is... .It cost us about 13 grand a year with filters per machine and that is a s670,header not included.
 
#44 ·
We have been doing the repair ourselves the last three years,we have a excellent guy that knows deere combines doing the inspections.It has cut the cost in half but it is still insane cause parts prices are getting out of hand.Working on these machines ourselves we can see how these combines are built to cost you LOST of money in parts,Many bearing are way too small for the application and need replacing every two years.the idlers are tin ****, instead of cast and get bent,the belts don't last a quarter of the hours they used to,the advanced powercast tailboard works good but is a money pit because of being designed the way it is... .It cost us about 13 grand a year with filters per machine and that is a s670,header not included.
Obviously as the hours increase the cost of maintenance increases. How many hours are you at?
 
#45 ·
Getting pretty old 1600 rotor hours.We run a combination of Wildfong concaves,precision elements, redekop blades and things like wear strips on discharge and overshot beater we build ourselves.It is a lot cheaper and those concaves and elements make the machine preform better.
 
#50 ·
I come from a Heavy equipment background where tractors and loaders consistently run 30,000 hours with only modest mid life rebuild/repairs. I have been involved recently with 2 980 Cat loader complete rebuilds. 100% stripped down to frame, all pin holes line bored and rebushed, complete new wiring, cab interior, glass, drop in engine and the rest of the components rebuilt, etc. etc. Full Cat warranty. All for $200,000 less than a new one and no DPF,DEF,EGR etc. I know it is a different world but shouldn't our farm equipment be able to run longer by rebuilding it and lower our per acre and per bushel cost?
 
#48 ·
I did a total cost of ownership on a 1999 Lexion 480 that I owned for 11-12 years. It had 1600/1250 hrs on it and came from corn and bean country, Funk Nebraska. It had combined 1.8 million bushels when I bought it and needed quite a lot of wear parts replaced or rebuilt like main cylinder, APS, impeller, vertical unloading auger, some sheet metal items like the top of the clean grain elevator, complete new Redekop Mav chopper. Otherwise was in very nice condition. I did most of the work myself on that major rebuild and put in about $30,000 of parts including a new Sunnybrook cylinder and Mav chopper and doing rebearing and seals on several gear boxes. That work brought it back to excellent condition. I ran it for 11 years, some later years as a second machine, putting on about 1600 engine/1300 thresher hours over that time. Over the years we changed most belts and bearings, sieve hanger bushings etc. as we did major disassembly of components. I included more things in my total cost than the way you did it. Header cost. Ownership cost - Purchase price minus selling price plus interest cost. I also included another fairly major refit of concaves, impeller, APS, rebuild rotors, bubble up auger, unloading auger, feeder house etc. the year before I sold the machine. It was in better shape when I sold it than when I bought it. I figured the total cost of ownership of that combine over 11 years was about $14/ acre. That number would probably have gone down over the next 500-1000 hours. We are in fairly high yield of wheat, barley canola, heavy straw and wet condition area. As a cost per bushel number I am going from memory but IIRC for repairs over the whole time was about $100,000 for a million bushels, so 10 cents Canadian. I always thought for a fairly high hour, high bushel combine those numbers were reasonable. Of that total cost for repairs, about $25,000 was money poorly spent to dealers over and over chasing a couple of electrical gremlins. They never could fix the reel speed problem so with $240 from a local hydraulics shop for a flow control and an electric linear actuator problem solved. The new owner loves the combine and like me, has had almost no in harvest downtime with it. I would expect this machine to run another 1500-2000 hours with only average repairs because of the above average repairs put into it recently. For 5 years it ran along side of a 240 hour 590 and in canola did everything the 590 could. It might have been 10 % behind in tough wheat. It did this burning 12-15 Imperial gallons per hour and was the lowest grain loss of any combine I owned, but comparable to the 590. I sold the combine because I retired and am simply interested in all these numbers because I still love all colors of iron and keeping it working.
 
#47 ·
On a Lexion the belts go for a long time except the APS or precylinder belt and the impeller belt. If you plug it with a slug in these two areas and burn the belt you will likley need to replace it in season. As far as bearings they also last a long time. They use good name bearings and over half of them can be greased. My one machine has 1500 separator hours and we have changed very few bearings due to wear and quite a few of the belts are original. All the modifications have really helped these machines run a lot smoother and better than 10 years ago. The lentils and soybeans tend to wear out the concave. At 1500 hours the original concave needs to be replaced. Chopper blades wear like any other make.
 
#49 ·
I agree with SSK. He was posting while I was typing. He makes a good addition to what I said. Another after thought relating to long belt life is that most of the pulleys, or sheaves and even some idlers are very good quality machined cast iron. Lexions have more belts and bearings but don't cause a lot of problems. For example the chopper drive has 3 shorter belts. Way less trouble than one long belt that whips and jumps.
 
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