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Does anyone know how much S15 I can safely seed place with yellow peas? 3” spoons, 10” spacing. I was hoping to seed place 100lbs S15 per acre.
 

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Abfarms what kind of spacing and size of opener did you use. Do you think S15 would be better and MESZ?
 

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What's the idea with placing that much with peas?
Phos levels for next year??? I can understand that.
Moisture levels would be the key in my mind as to how much you would seed place.
 

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I was using a GEN T300x2 double shoot with a 2” tip on 10” spacing. I dont put 120lbs on everywhere every year, this was on irrigation and even though its a narrow shoot, when DS it places the MESZ about 1-1.5” below the peas due to opener design. Heavy clay soil with good moisture. Normally I back down to 80-100lbs based on soil tests. When peas are $9+ bu you want to grow as many as you can though! Fingers crossed for 2020;)
 

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So basically Abfarms, you put no MESZ in the seed row whatsoever. Double shoot is different than doing seed-placed, and not the same thing as what the original poster is asking about. We regularly put down 300 #/ac of total NPK product in the double shoot with all kinds off crops with no issues, because as you say there's separation there. Putting phos with the seed row is another story.

With peas we typically put 20#/ac actual Phos with the seed, and any more we put in the double shoot. S15 should be safer than 11-52. But I don't know how much safer.
 

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I want to put at least as much phos down as I am removing, only have a single shoot but trying to build phos levels as best as I can without deep banding and drying out the soil. 27$/acre on fertilizer is still cheap to maintain phos levels and it’s not going to get any cheaper than it is right now. Should easily make that back on 45 bushel peas at 6.50$ Thinking about switching the s15 to MESZ @ 100lbs acre to get a few extra lbs of phos.
 

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So basically Abfarms, you put no MESZ in the seed row whatsoever. Double shoot is different than doing seed-placed, and not the same thing as what the original poster is asking about. We regularly put down 300 #/ac of total NPK product in the double shoot with all kinds off crops with no issues, because as you say there's separation there. Putting phos with the seed row is another story.

With peas we typically put 20#/ac actual Phos with the seed, and any more we put in the double shoot. S15 should be safer than 11-52. But I don't know how much safer.
Torriem, what size opener and spacing?
 

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I've never noticed any seed burn. 20# actual phos is only about 60#/ac of S15 (I typically use MESZ though). This is on irrigation, so soils are usually kept at good moisture levels.
 

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Torriem, it is placed in the seed row, 1” below. It is NOT sidebanded. Look on the GEN mfg website for T300x2 opener and GEN 74 wear point. Fertilizer comes out the front opening and placed directly below the seed and Inoculate. It is in the seed row and not “side banded” I use the gen 71 tip for sidebanding and a 3” DS point for paired row. essentially my actual SBU is lower than what the poster is using and higher rates with little issue. There is no horizontal separation, only 1/2-1” vertical. Peterdevries I think you will be safe at 100lbs as your 3” spread will offer higher SBU and larger distances between seed & fertilizer. Also MES has a lower salt index and the S part is 1/2 elemental, slowing down the process of S breakdown.
 

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In my experience there a significant difference between p placed that 1' lower vs right with the seed. Did this "experiment" or should I say accident a couple years back with some wheat seeded on some land that really likes/needs P and it really looked different early than stuff that had P right with seed.
 

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Torriem, it is placed in the seed row, 1” below. It is NOT sidebanded. Look on the GEN mfg website for T300x2 opener and GEN 74 wear point. Fertilizer comes out the front opening and placed directly below the seed and Inoculate. It is in the seed row and not “side banded” I use the gen 71 tip for sidebanding and a 3” DS point for paired row. essentially my actual SBU is lower than what the poster is using and higher rates with little issue. There is no horizontal separation, only 1/2-1” vertical. Peterdevries I think you will be safe at 100lbs as your 3” spread will offer higher SBU and larger distances between seed & fertilizer. Also MES has a lower salt index and the S part is 1/2 elemental, slowing down the process of S breakdown.
I also regularly put large amounts of fertilizer with the double shoot 1" down blow the seed spread (using flexicoil stealth openers with knock on seed sweeps whatever they are called). But I would never do that with a single-shot drill, even with a 3" spread. That's my point. What you and I can do with our double shot drill is much more than can be done safely with a single shot drill--I've placed nearly 300# of product (various blends) down in the tips and rarely have any issue with seed burn in crops. That 1" separation is the key, and in my opinion, the result is similar to what you can do with a side band knife. That's why I often equate the two techniques. And although it's technically in the same row as the seed, when I hear "placed in the seed row" that means to me it's placed with the seed with the same hole in the opener and the same hose.

Doesn't sound like you're placing your fertilizer right with the seed usually, so what you can do safely may be different than what he can do since he does not have this extra 1" separation for placing fertilize safely. That's my point.

He may indeed be able to do it because of his SBU, as you say. But neither of our experiences can dictate that for sure. I'm wary myself. As I said I have definitely placed 50 or 60# of the MESZ with the pea seed (not below it) with no bad effects with the 3" spread. Yes sulfur should make it safer (lowers the pH and improves solubility). But Richardson's agronomists last told me they can't say for sure either, but it's something they'd like to trial.

Sounds like this is an excellent opportunity for Peterdevries to do some minor experimentation. Try a few different rates up to 100# over some small areas and see what happens.
 

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I wouldn’t put any sulfur with peas. I did once with a single shoot disk drill and it thinned the stand out. Was dry till the beginning of June. Some of the peas turn black in the ground. Where there was no sulfur, no black seeds. 75 lbs of fertilizer 40lbs of it was 11-52
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I wouldn’t put any sulfur with peas. I did once with a single shoot disk drill and it thinned the stand out. Was dry till the beginning of June. Some of the peas turn black in the ground. Where there was no sulfur, no black seeds. 75 lbs of fertilizer 40lbs of it was 11-52
Keep in mind that sulfur you used is AMS, which is a much different product than S15. You used 35 lbs of it which is a lot to seed place with a cereal let alone a pulse. S15 has the same blend of sulfur and phos formed in every granule to reduce seed burn and increase yields because each plant has access to every nutrient.

Richardson has some new pulse data out with MESZ used with lentils, seed placed up to 150lbs and yields are still climbing at that rate. I think 100 should be safe provided the soil moisture is there.
 

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I agree Torriem, There are too many variables to know for sure what a “safe” rate is. I’ve had success at these rates and placement, and I too think Peterdevries should do some test strips at different rates. Unless he’s in a very dry area, or perhaps in sandier soil I’d think he would be safe at 100lbs. Also have a neighbor (we discuss soil tests and fertilizer rates every year) and he has done 100lbs product with the seed using a single shoot stealth opener
 
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