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howardgroupinc.com or search accurate metering but poor distribution
I would trust a study done by PAMI before anyone else. That howardgroupinc study doesn’t even make sense and should make everyone ask questions. No way one hose on a Bourgault can be that far out unless it was pinched or partially plugged. If that was the case you would see all kinds of stripping in a crop not to mention other PAMI studies 15 plus years ago that didn’t show any kind of unreasonable CV.

We run Agtron blockage on both drills and although it’s far from perfect for counting flow in runs I would say the 11% CV that PAMI published is about what we see with blockage monitors.
 

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The C850 empties the same way the 1910 did, pouring over the primary tubes. Kinda dumb, and slow. Also dumb how they didn’t go ahead and make the metering bodies stainless from factory.
Dumb from our perspective, not from the shareholder selling parts though ...

As far as BG distribution goes, I agree that see around 10% variance through my blockage system. But never notice anything in the field. They did just release something new that is suppose to deal with that, so they must have complaints.
Primary hose life is defiantly an issue, I think that shows how inefficient the air system is. But I sure like the simplicity of a BG tank.
 

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Seeded with both bg with mrb and Seedhawk in same field for two years harvest crew those years who knew nothing about seeding tools would say why does one side of field always look better than the other. Yield monitors would say the same. Now there all seed hawks we do put down some of our n in fall and we did space out our fert knife another half inch to the side and sink it a bit deeper to deal with nh3 burn but they always go in the ground even though there lighter and and 84 foot drills weighs as much as a 65 foot paralink and in our hills or som land that’s wet it does make a big difference
 

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Think we had our seed master for 8 plus years. Grew some great crops with it, had the odd disaster. Think we were getting a little fertilizer burn with it while using Nh3. Didn’t like the field finish either or the trash clearance. Went to a XTC last year. Wasn’t impressed with how our first 1000 acres of wheat came up. Can blame that on being inexperienced with the machine though and the dry conditions we encountered also. At harvest time though you couldn’t see any difference.

We have had Morris air carts, Deere’s and now on our 2nd Bourgault, can’t see switching away from BG anytime soon. I really like the simplicity of the BG tank when compared to the competition. Also everybody complains about the weight of BG products, well I’d rather have some more steel in my seeding units so they don’t break apart.
 

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I will agree that the didribution of a Bourgault tank may not be 100% as good as a fluted meter system but it is pretty good I’d say as I have counted seed populations on different manifolds and have found very minimal differences if any. The accuracy of calibrating is real good I would say . I would strongly disagree that a fluted meter roller style is as accurate ( Deere 1910) ...anything will effect the metering of a roller . The Bourgault augers with the sump are very reliable and calibrations are very accurate .... the Bourgault seed hoses are junk and have had to replace all of them on our drill . The black seed hose from Deere is way better . We had two disk drills over 10 years and never changed one seed hose ( secondary 1”)
 

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Seeded with both bg with mrb and Seedhawk in same field for two years harvest crew those years who knew nothing about seeding tools would say why does one side of field always look better than the other. Yield monitors would say the same. Now there all seed hawks we do put down some of our n in fall and we did space out our fert knife another half inch to the side and sink it a bit deeper to deal with nh3 burn but they always go in the ground even though there lighter and and 84 foot drills weighs as much as a 65 foot paralink and in our hills or som land that’s wet it does make a big difference
Do you have a guess as to why the Seedhawk was growing more grain?

This looks like a complete maintenance disaster! Does Bourgault even think of what might happen to this thing after a few years worth of fertilizer goes through there? When some of those internal baffles or UHMW parts start to wear out the distribution will be an absolute train wreck. Is a guy supposed to stick his head in there every day after a couple years or just replace it as maintenance. Seems this stuff is only built to get through the warranty period and then they kiss you goodbye, no wonder the drills are going for 40 cents on the dollar after a couple seasons.

The simple fact that they have changed their air kit constantly for the last decade or more and are still doing so pretty much tells you there is a problem. Will be more of a problem on wider drills.
 

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Just some food for thought, but I've always believed that if the air system is that hard on hoses, it's equally as hard on the seed.
 

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N to far away from the seed and pho’s burning the seed now with bg set up for triple shoot I think that can be less of a problem and when guys say rough field finish its better on a dry yeamore dry dirt displaced in a ridge and can still seed shallower. As far as mrb s go they can drive me nuts in the 9000 ac the drill seeds that year they need some tlc in that time. Nothing like adjusting scrapers on a rain day and them things hair pinned in heavy straw and left fert exposed or nh3 gassing off like a disk typically does. As far as more metal more strength I normally agree but we don’t have tanks mounted on our hawks and the last few we haven’t had any frame cracking. Weight worked against borgault when it’s stuck a lot more. And buried up to castors. See enough bg drills at sales with new hitches for that reason we didn’t have high float option when we had them so I m sure that would help
 

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Bourgault uses lots of steel pipe for primary lines that are mounted in the toolbar frame to prevent sagging and plugging problems. Without going and counting, I think the one I drive uses 40 pieces of primary hose including 8 bander towers and 8 seed towers as well as having the main distribution mounted on the cart which adds 16 hoses as compared to what the same design would mounted on the toolbar. I believe there are only steel line sections involved to supply the triplex and the fiveplex wings.

The previous drill was a John Deere with only six towers in total since it was 43’ and it used ammonia instead of urea. It had 12 primary hoses. By replacing one hose in the system on the JD you were changing 6.25 % of the total primary hose. Changing one short piece of primary hose on some Bourgault’s is only changing 2.5 % of the hose because there is steel line involved and 16 towers instead of 6 on the other one.

I guess we could tear all that off there and put 16 primary hoses on up to almost a hundred feet long and supposedly make the hose last three times as long, but I don’t think we will.
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This looks like a complete maintenance disaster! Does Bourgault even think of what might happen to this thing after a few years worth of fertilizer goes through there?
The simple fact that they have changed their air kit constantly for the last decade or more and are still doing so pretty much tells you there is a problem.

The EPDS might be what some guys have been needing for very high rates of fertilizer going to the mid row branders if they’ve had problems in the past.

I don’t think it’s something I would want in the seed delivery side until it has proven it’s long term durability. But then again I wouldn’t want any chance of a fan plenum defuser F’ ing application up, or dictating what tank must be used for what product, or is it 64 little valves ? in a large NH sectional control system. :sFun_whistle:
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Seeded with both bg with mrb and Seedhawk in same field for two years harvest crew those years who knew nothing about seeding tools would say why does one side of field always look better than the other. Yield monitors would say the same.
Did you ever figure out why a crop that someone said looked better yielded just as crappy as the stuff planted by the Bourgault?
 

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Yeah. The more product we put down the faster we replace the Hose’s.
We found that out when we up the rate a fare bit. When you think about it it’s like a sand blaster all day at the same spot.
It seems we only get about two to three years the have to replace.
That’s why farmers are staring to spread fertilizer for this resend and capacity
 

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Do you have a guess as to why the Seedhawk was growing more grain?



This looks like a complete maintenance disaster! Does Bourgault even think of what might happen to this thing after a few years worth of fertilizer goes through there? When some of those internal baffles or UHMW parts start to wear out the distribution will be an absolute train wreck. Is a guy supposed to stick his head in there every day after a couple years or just replace it as maintenance. Seems this stuff is only built to get through the warranty period and then they kiss you goodbye, no wonder the drills are going for 40 cents on the dollar after a couple seasons.

The simple fact that they have changed their air kit constantly for the last decade or more and are still doing so pretty much tells you there is a problem. Will be more of a problem on wider drills.
Amen to that!;)
 

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Bourgault already has baffles inside the main elbows been there since early 2000s for sure.
And I know someone who had one come unglued and really affect the distribution on a whole crop. Pretty sure it was a 4000 series tank so that goes back a bit. Something to be aware of.
 

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You must have the only honest seedhawk dealer on the planet, I know my local dealer doesn't even sell the seed hawk tanks anymore, however the seed hawk rep always tells me the tanks are almost perfect and they never have issues.:rolleyes:

After climbing up the Deere C850 tank at the latest show I'm not really convinced how safe that staircase is. The steps are narrow and have large gaps plus everything shakes and wobbles.

For anyone that likes the seed hawk metering I would take a good look at the CNH/Flexi coil tanks, very similar meter system that has very few bugs and the support of a large company behind it.
Really hated the staircase on the new Deere vs our seed hawk cart. Like you say it wobbled like crazy and bottom rail wasn’t easy to grab. I also didn’t like all the little direction changes climbing to top it seemed unnecessary. I really liked the lids on the Deere though and being able to fill small tank from top and half way is neat but I’d still prefer small tank at back rather than front like I’ve told Vaderstad lots of times it would be so a lot easier to fill with minibulks then
 
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