[mtremraf]

There is a variety of opener and packer wheel Flexi-Coil 5000HD configurations for sale. We can adjust openers to packers on the drill. Current interested 5000 drills have a 5 inch (or thereabouts) rubber packer on 10" spacing. We are currently side banding liquid fert with an Atom Jet opener on 7" spacing and like the results. We are thinking of going with the 4" paired row Atom Jet with liquid in between. What goes well with a 5 inch rubber packer? We are open to other openers and opener brands as well. Would consider changing packers if there is a good reason to? - dirt movement from 4 inch paired row may be a good reason - unsure. Any other recommendations. Thank you in advance.

 

[SouthernSK]

I would be looking at the Dutch universal series because it moves a lot less dirt then the Atom jet opener.

 

[Transaxial]

There is a variety of opener and packer wheel Flexi-Coil 5000HD configurations for sale. We can adjust openers to packers on the drill. Current interested 5000 drills have a 5 inch (or thereabouts) rubber packer on 10" spacing. We are currently side banding liquid fert with an Atom Jet opener on 7" spacing and like the results. We are thinking of going with the 4" paired row Atom Jet with liquid in between. What goes well with a 5 inch rubber packer? We are open to other openers and opener brands as well. Would consider changing packers if there is a good reason to? - dirt movement from 4 inch paired row may be a good reason - unsure. Any other recommendations. Thank you in advance.

I am on my 6th set of different openers on 3 different drills over the last 10 years. Concord 12" - Anderson 5 1/2" openers had too deep a point and ripped the ground way too much for this soil, Would not stay in the ground because of the wide sealer plate. Dutch Precision was better but still same problems. I was/am using NH3 and needed the deeper point which is not an issue for you. Switched to BG 5710 on 9.8 space, DS to Dutch Universal 3 1/2" with 3/8" points and NH3 to MRB. Did not work because Universals would not stay in the ground. The angle of the carbide lifts the drill out of the ground when combined with the up force of the MRBs. Also there was NO fertilizer separation , even for the pks which was DS in the middle of the 3 1/2" band but was killing the canola germination.
Tried Stealth 3 1/2" on same drill and worked better in some aspects. Great separation of pks from seed but could not keep them from plugging, esp when soil was wetter. Needed 500+ HP on 54' of drill, moving way too much dirt and stepping was a problem on front ranks. Switched drills because 330 trips would not hold those openers. FC 5000 on 12 " may work better with that opener setup. I went to BG 5710 on 12.6" space with 5.5 pneumatic packers and Dutch Precision openers with 4.5" sealer plate. NH3 is down the point of the Precision and P with the seed and KS down the MRB. It is the best combo I have used so far. NH3 creates it's own problems in that you need to fracture the seedbed too much. Where you are using liquid I would look at a low disturbance opener that slices through the soil like a BTT Advantage 4-5" or VW makes a nice sharp, sleek 4" point with good carbide. I have a set of these that I have not used because they do not work with NH3 and have considered switching away from NH3 because of it. I would not recommend Dutch Universal because as stated earlier, they are a bulldozer and unless your soil is very mellow they will not stay in the ground evenly and they pull crazy hard. The Advantage and VW opener look like they will move a lot less dirt which becomes a huge issue as you go to DS and wider opener on narrower spacing. Be careful what combo you choose as you may have to drop your seeding speed down below 4 mph to prevent dirt from a back rank from flipping into the seed trench of a previous rank and adding 1-2" of dirt on your carefully placed seed.The DS tubes drop the dry fertilizer from several inches above the ground so it sprays all over the seedrow and beyond, defeating the purpose of the nice little point that you can order in 3/8, 3/4, or 1 1/2" below the seed bed. How do you make the fertilizer stay in that little trench??? Oh, you need seed brakes!! Well I tried that too. K and ammonium sulphate will plug those things solid in short order so that is not a solution but the theory sounds good. Just some of my experience and opinions. Good luck.

 

[dblack2206]

Black Rock Agriprises in Mansfield, Wa

Take a peak at the openers we use. Agmaster Flexi boot from Australia. May not be right for your soils, but we are dry and need less soil throw. They also make a rigid version with a paired row option. We use the flexible boot version as it is very adjustable, and holds up in rocky soils.

 

[dutchengineer]

I am on my 6th set of different openers on 3 different drills over the last 10 years. Concord 12" - Anderson 5 1/2" openers had too deep a point and ripped the ground way too much for this soil, Would not stay in the ground because of the wide sealer plate. Dutch Precision was better but still same problems. I was/am using NH3 and needed the deeper point which is not an issue for you. Switched to BG 5710 on 9.8 space, DS to Dutch Universal 3 1/2" with 3/8" points and NH3 to MRB. Did not work because Universals would not stay in the ground. The angle of the carbide lifts the drill out of the ground when combined with the up force of the MRBs. Also there was NO fertilizer separation , even for the pks which was DS in the middle of the 3 1/2" band but was killing the canola germination.
Tried Stealth 3 1/2" on same drill and worked better in some aspects. Great separation of pks from seed but could not keep them from plugging, esp when soil was wetter. Needed 500+ HP on 54' of drill, moving way too much dirt and stepping was a problem on front ranks. Switched drills because 330 trips would not hold those openers. FC 5000 on 12 " may work better with that opener setup. I went to BG 5710 on 12.6" space with 5.5 pneumatic packers and Dutch Precision openers with 4.5" sealer plate. NH3 is down the point of the Precision and P with the seed and KS down the MRB. It is the best combo I have used so far. NH3 creates it's own problems in that you need to fracture the seedbed too much. Where you are using liquid I would look at a low disturbance opener that slices through the soil like a BTT Advantage 4-5" or VW makes a nice sharp, sleek 4" point with good carbide. I have a set of these that I have not used because they do not work with NH3 and have considered switching away from NH3 because of it. I would not recommend Dutch Universal because as stated earlier, they are a bulldozer and unless your soil is very mellow they will not stay in the ground evenly and they pull crazy hard. The Advantage and VW opener look like they will move a lot less dirt which becomes a huge issue as you go to DS and wider opener on narrower spacing. Be careful what combo you choose as you may have to drop your seeding speed down below 4 mph to prevent dirt from a back rank from flipping into the seed trench of a previous rank and adding 1-2" of dirt on your carefully placed seed.The DS tubes drop the dry fertilizer from several inches above the ground so it sprays all over the seedrow and beyond, defeating the purpose of the nice little point that you can order in 3/8, 3/4, or 1 1/2" below the seed bed. How do you make the fertilizer stay in that little trench??? Oh, you need seed brakes!! Well I tried that too. K and ammonium sulphate will plug those things solid in short order so that is not a solution but the theory sounds good. Just some of my experience and opinions. Good luck.

As you well know, many variables can be involved when an opener fails to meet the expectations of a farmer. We're always interested in talking about Dutch Openers in any of the diverse soil conditions but especially in cases where they may not be meeting expectations.

The best time to call is as soon as you see a problem so that we can see it first hand with a field visit and respond so that the problems do not impact your crops negatively and to get you back in the field as quickly as possible.

If you should ever have problems with the performance of a Dutch Openers product in the future, please contact us anytime at the following numbers:


Dutch Openers Contacts:
Email: [email protected]
Office: Toll-free 800-663-8824 Tony Ext. 252
306-781-4820 Jessica Ext. 251
Ian Ext. 238 cell 780-686-9970
Australia 0459 121 807

Northern Alberta A.J. Dumais 780-632-1919
Southern Alberta Terence Peatman 403-501-1998
Northern Saskatchewan Russ Nickel 306-921-7715
Southern Saskatchewan Jason Steinley 306-551-7171
Manitoba only - Gaber Distributors Dean Gaber 800-463-8748

 

[furrowjockey]

Quick question for Transaxial. Am looking at trading drills. Currently running a Flexi Coil 5000 45 ft DS 9 inch 4 inch rubber, 550 trips. Found a deal on a 2012, 5000, 10 inch spacing with 4 inch rubber, but 350 lb trips. Am in north central Montana average growing season precp of 6 inches, silty clay loam soil, so seeding conditions at times can be tough trying to get drill to go into sprayer wheel tracks or ends of fields where combines and trucks have drove. Probably stay away from 350 trips?

 

[dblack2206]

I would avoid the 350# trips

 

[Transaxial]

Quick question for Transaxial. Am looking at trading drills. Currently running a Flexi Coil 5000 45 ft DS 9 inch 4 inch rubber, 550 trips. Found a deal on a 2012, 5000, 10 inch spacing with 4 inch rubber, but 350 lb trips. Am in north central Montana average growing season precp of 6 inches, silty clay loam soil, so seeding conditions at times can be tough trying to get drill to go into sprayer wheel tracks or ends of fields where combines and trucks have drove. Probably stay away from 350 trips?

You are not saying what opener you are using and that will make a huge difference on draft. If you are DS then I would assume you are using a Stealth or some paired row opener. The 330 trips on my 5710 BG were nowhere close to stiff enough to pull 3" Stealths. They would not hold on 3 1/2" Dutch Universals with the 3/8" point. That drill was 54' with 66 openers and was using up most of 525 HP held down with 70,000 lbs of weight. If you were using a 3/4" knife type opener I would think you would be ok. If you do some math and look at Nebraska tests on your tractor for the gear you run in , you will see max drawbar pull in pounds. Most newer tractors have a power % meter that shows where your power all goes if you watch it as you start off on a seed run. 6% idling just running engine fan, A/C, alternator, charge pumps, etc. Then start your seeder fans and see another 8-10%. Now start rolling your rig with full tanks and watch the power jump to 35-40% total. Next when you drop the drill in the ground the power jumps to 75-80%. So you are using 40% of say 38,000 lbs of pull on my Challenger 965 running in 8th gear and 1750 rpm at 4.5 mph. That is 15,200 lbs of drawbar pull divided by 66 shanks = 230 lbs of constant force on each shank. Using that math 330 trips were not heavy enough in my conditions and I was constantly tightening shank springs indicating working and wear. A smaller, sharper opener or softer soil may allow you to get by with the 350 trips. Another clue may be some of the Pami tests that show a range of HP required to pull one opener. So if my Dutch Precision openers with 4 1/2" sealer plates take 5-7HP - average 6 HP each x 66 = 396 HP. That would mean at 100% engine power, you have 60% left to pull the shanks. 60% of 38,000 lbs of drawbar pull = 22,800 pounds divided by 66 shanks = 345 pounds of average pull per shank. That would mean you are only 5 pounds away from tripping every shank at once, not to mention your poor tractor!! It is a bit of guesswork but it is interesting how close it works out to reality. It is a lot easier and less expensive to do a bit of number crunching than find out that your shanks are too light AND you have to trade up tractors in prime seeding time! Just my 2 cents worth. Good luck.