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Shoe overload

11K views 33 replies 18 participants last post by  rickfly 
#1 ·
Running a stripper header in 75+ bushel wheat, im having a heck of a time keeping grain in the machine, and only on the right hand side. Ive added cover plates on thte concave and took some fingers off the distribution augers on the RH side to slow down the flow to the accell rolls. Im about ready to pull my hair out, 4-5mph isnt going to cut it and my capacity is **** since I start throwing grain over the chaffer on the RH side while my loss monitor NEVER goes off on the LH side. Ive got a picture on my phone of the sieve showing the drastic difference between the left and right side of the chaffer, ill post that later if need be.
 
#5 ·
We put covers on top of the rollers so that they were feed from 12 o'clock rather than 10 o'clock , the main reason being to reduce wear on rollers. Is it an air issue? Blockage on air inlet. I once had similar trouble on an L2 after battling it for a few years I noticed in the manual there was a 3/4" gap just in front and under where the top sieve sits. When I pulled the sieve it was squash on the side I was having trouble . I gave it the correct gap and away it went. I had bent it taking the shoe box out. I don't know what the gap was for as it lead into the dead air area but it had something to do with bleeding air I think.
 
#6 ·
It seems that its just pouring clean grain out the thresher side, the idea of adding a plate underneath the dist augers seems like it would work. It already has a pan underneath the rear auger, I really wish they would have added it to the front one. It really sucks to have all that cleaning capacity and having a 18" area ruining it.

Heres the chaffer after doing a turnaround with the seperator on letting it clear its throat. This was still laying on the chaffer.

 
#7 ·
On the sprayer this arvo thinking about it, I remember a guy with a 75 rang me last year with the same issue in canola. He had been through everything and I asked him to check the separator drive pulley on the main shaft for wear as they need to be in good condition. Some months later he saw me and told me that was the problem. He changed the pulley and belt and no more problems. I wonder if the 2012 on S series larger separator drives will fit . I updated my ex 2011 S67 with the kit of 3 pulleys and a belt for $800 us. It would be well worth it.
 
#8 ·
Any chance that that the tall stripped straw is preventing enough air from entering the fan inlet? Not sure how to check this, but it's something I've always wondered about when running the stripper header. Also, are you generating a large volume of returns, and could this be adding to the right side loading?
 
#10 ·
To have the chaffer shut like that something must be seriously wrong. I would definitly check the seperator drive pulley and belt for wear as it runs fan dist.augers as well,also pulley on main drive RH side for that belt, I have had to replace that due to wear after not many hrs
 
#11 ·
Three things, #1 the chaffer HAS to be at least 1/2" - pref more like 5/8" - no way any Gleaner will be able to run like this on any crop #2 CHECK ACCELERATOR ROLLS - #3 check your fan blades in the cup area for plugging on RH side. Only then add an extension to the trough to move the grain...
The other advice here is worth checking as well...
 
#12 · (Edited)
Ive ran the chaffer in every setting possible, Ive tried opening it up when it first started walking it out the back, I think ive adjusted it at least 25 times. Ive even messed with the shoe a few times but for the most part I leave it set where its at. Through all the settings I can only keep it in the machine when I keep it under 5mph regardless of what setting I have the chaffer on. Just for kicks I ran it up to 8 and 9mph, the left side and middle never even kicked on the sensor even on its most sensitive settings, but the RH side would light it up all the way immediately. After I posted this yesterday I am finding that my distributor augers and return elevator started kickin their respective low speed sensors off under random conditions and when that happened it just loaded the RH side of the chaffer causing me to stop and let its clear its throat while it just tossed grain out the RH side. (it would take 500+ feet for the cleaning system to catch up if I didnt stop) I dont know how I could have so much returns that I slow down the return elevator by having the chaffer as closed as I do. It never kicked on the speed sensors when I had it on the #12 slot and was having alot of returns and producing alot of trash in the bin. I sent a 1.10 dock to the elevator :mad:, the average dock as been anywhere from .3 to .7 on average. Ive got 800 acres gone through out of a 1000, the low yields 20-50bushel wheat never bothered my machine, but you start going through 65+ and it starts giving me fits.

Accell rolls are the PFP stainless and poly's they are showing zero wear, the main drive bearings have 200 hours on them. The return elevator belt has 300 hours on it. Ive been very meticulous about maintenance on my machine through the years. Is there a chance the torque limiter is taking a dump on me? If it is has anyone replaced one before, and how much time is involved in that?
 
#13 · (Edited)
If I remember correctly I run my chaffer at 3/4 of an inch and the sieve at 3/8 with my stripper head. . Does your machine return to cylinder or dump outside cylinder. If outside could you be tailing too much?

What is that rubber curtain below the accelerator rolls above the pan? The one running side to side on the machine at the front of the chaffer? I've never seen that.

Lets see you have a tailings problem which means its going through the chaffer but not the sieve and the into the tailings where it dumps back onto the right hand side of the chaffer and your sample is dirty which indicates a fan problem. Is your fan running fast enough. I had problems with fan sucking corn leaves in and depositing them between the chaffer and sieve. What else could be causing an airflow problem?
 
#16 ·
For the short time I ran today, it never set off the low speed sensors. About 15 acres into the day I lost the seal on my rotary screen so I am stopping every 20 mins to sweep off the radiator. I have the seal, but no rivets to put it on. I was willing to put up with that til I jumped the 1st feeder chain completely off the sprockets from one side to the other. This is going not to be a fun job, but after looking at it and sayin some words about agco's complete ineptness in their dealer network I think i can fix it with some #9 wire a come-along and a electric fence post with a j-hook on one end. Course I need another pair of hands to turn the pipe wrench on the splined feederhouse drive, its a perfect learning opportunity for my son. So my previous problem gets to sit on the backburner til i get this all straightened out.
 
#17 ·
What works for me to jump chain on sprocket is cut length of 1/2 rod little longer than chain is wide, weld piece of threaded bolt on in a T. Bolt onto chain you want to jump and turn over sprocket then take off when you can reach it. Throw T in toolbox.
 
#20 ·
I just got back in the house from getting the chain back on the sprockets. It went pretty easy until the chain got wedged between the bearing housing and the sprocket while walking it on creating a pile of chain that wouldnt walk on the sprocket on the left hand side. It took several hours of persuasion to get it to come loose. Its amazing what you find laying around in old outbuildings that coulda been put there 30+ years ago waiting for this particular purpose.



While I had the top door open to get a look at the feeder chains I got a chance to look at the fan. The slats dont appear twisted and when I opened the door only a small amount of trash fell not enough to plug it up. Now there is alot of straw packed around the area directly in front of the doors., but nothing impeding it from coming in the bottom.
 
#21 ·
Take a close look ate fingers and fighting in the header. Flighting should extend a good couple inches beyond side of feeder slats and fingers should not be tring to push material in until at least this point also. Headers are a big part of feeder chain issues. May even be part of your problem of overloading right side of shoe. Forget what you have for machine but could be some other things you could do depending on feeder setup ect.
 
#23 ·
Take a close look at the fingers and fighting in the header. Flighting should extend a good couple inches beyond side of feeder slats and fingers should not be tring to push material in until at least this point also. Headers are a big part of feeder chain issues. May even be part of your problem of overloading right side of shoe. Forget what you have for machine but could be some other things you could do depending on feeder setup ect.
So the problem may originate on the header? Normally im cutting 35-50 bushel wheat with pockets of 75, this year im averaging 70+ and seeing pockets of 100+. It makes sense that if the flighting is extended farther on the left than the right it wouldn't feed even and only show its ugly face when I start dealing with a lot of straw in high yielding crops. Ill go check out the fingers when I get the new rotary screen on this afternoon. My wheat straw is starting to rot and my whole harvest has become a joke. Despite that its the best crop we have had in 20-30 years. Just need to get it in the bin!

The helicals have only 200 hours on them and are in the stock position. I do have a pfp rotor instead of the cdf. Im really considering putting helicals back on the seperator door due to rotor loss under certain conditions particularly when the sun first goes down. Ive had to really open the concave to keep from overthreshing. Im running 500rom on the rotor and .40 on the concave. Ive ran it anywhere from .15 to .50. Ive ran with 4 rows blocked and 6 rows. 6 rows plugged helped alot with overloading but really increased rotor loss. Any rotor rpm ablove 600 just turned the straw into powder, most likely due to the rotting straw.
 
#24 ·
when stripping I run my concave at 0 with 3 rows of fillers at roughly 700 rpm on my S67. Took the helicles off of the separator door and put on a channel iron and 3 triangle shaped disrupters to get the stuff outa the cage but the separator side of an s67 is different than a R65. On my R65 I adjusted the separator as tight as I could get it to the cylinder to get the stuff outa the cage. 70 - 100bu wheat. On my S67 the separator side is not adjustable and there is a large amount of space between the cylinder and the cage.

What is wrong with turning the straw to powder. The smaller the lighter and the better the fan blows it out w/o it riding on the Chaffer imo. How much stuff are you taking in the head? Have you tried changing stripper rotor speeds to take less straw in the machine?
 
#26 ·
Redline I cannot offer a solution to your issues with the shoe overload but a question as to why Gleaner does not have a tailings monitor so at least you can assess from the cab how much load is falling back onto the right hand side of the shoe regardless of whether it is return to accelerator rollers or not. I can often block the tailings elevator up in with green straw if the chaffer and sieve are not adjusted correctly, as this continues to recycle around and around. I have notice that under higher tailings loads that material will be backfeed above the front feeder chain and onto header retractable fingers when turning at the ends, this you can see from the seat. I am thinking of putting a camera above return to cylinder drop put to get a better idea of whats going on, at this stage however I am not sure if this will be successful.
As NDDAN suggested steep pitch helicals over thrasher side will help a lot. Also straw build up around transmission will likely reduce your fan performance. I have noticed that when using the light seeds kit that straw gathering over screen above front axle and below feeder makes a significant difference to the job in the bin, now I check it and clean it regularly if the bin job is poor.
At least the yields are very good, always remember that mostly good things never come easy!
 
#28 ·
Just jumped my front feeder chain completely off the sprockets for the 2nd time in 12 hours. Even though I removed flighting on the header just as nddan suggested. Tensioner on the feederchain tightened to 5 1/8". I was going through pretty thick straw but only at 4mph to keep the grain in the machine thanks to the uneven shoe load. I heard a pop on the floorboard and seconds later she puked out the throat.

The previous owner had a rotary screen update installed, but completely wrong. I have an 1 1/2" gap between my fins and the piece of steel that was welded in there to make the rotary screen sealed up. I have been having to stop every 20-30 mins to take a broom to the radiator its the most frustrating combining experience that I can remember, and the radiator prop rods decided to stop holding up the rotary screen door so I have to carry a 2x4 around in the cab of the combine.

Ive been at it for 3 weeks and this harvest is turning into a joke. Ive borrowed tools from my neighbor that confirmed this. It would be nice if I had trees hiding my fields at this point, I swear im the last guy cutting for 100 miles. Best crop ever, worst harvest experience ever and the wheat is beginning to lodge and rain is on the way tonight.
 
#29 ·
Is it possible that your feeder chain is the culprit in all of this? Goofy things happen if everything is not running exactly the way it was envisioned by the engineer. I know from experience that a screwy feeder chain can load a cylinder funny which can drive a guy up the wall trying to figure out what is wrong with the rest of the combine. I thought of this when the thread was on page 1 but figured there must be a better explanation that this.
 
#32 ·
Had a new feederchain put in this afternoon the one that was on there was pretty worn, so I will find out. But im convinced that the shoe overload is due to the material not being spread out evenly by the distribution augers so I also ordered another auger trough to go with the factory one. Made a mistake and didnt get the support ordered. Can the two trough's share a support for a few running hours?
 
#30 ·
Downright unusual to say the least. Closest thing to that around here is 'tough' ryegrass straw and Morning glory vines.That stuff doesn't discriminate it plugs and fouls Green, Red and my silver machine. The only solution around here anyways is to slow way down before the feeder house gets overload and plugs. Sometimes makes it's way to the chaeffer screen and hangs up there. In heavy wheat and especially lodged with the ryegrass and morning glory vines it's slow to like 1-2 mph to keep from plugging the feeder house and overloading the screen. Never had a plug in the rotor area and I can't imagine a plug there being a lot of fun to clean out let alone possible belt replace. Sometimes in heavy lodged wheat we just have to creep through those heavy lodged areas, even 2 mph can plug 'er up. I feel a little better about that situation when I look back at the bin and see a good steady stream of wheat into the bin. Just grit my teeth at the slow speed and keep creeping along through those heavy and often weed contaminated areas. Bin sample doesn't look to good in those areas with very short pieces of green or wet stems entering the bin. Usually those short green pieces closely match the wheat seed in size/wieght. More wind it's blowing out the back. The only solution we've found is just go as slow as possible to keep the feed house from plugging with the regular lug down of engine and thud of green clumps going through. Since I installed the later model feed chain reverser I haven't had to clear any plugs from feed house by hand. Just a flat out slow process in those conditions. Hit those lodged areas at 3-4 mph and the machine wouldn't make 20ft before it protested and plugged:eek:. In large lodged weedy areas I sometimes stop and let the machine kinda try to clear it's self of the wrapped up vines and green straw before it gets to compacted and wraped tight on the feeder chain. Maybe just 'creeping' through the acres you got left will get you through this years matted down mess and hope for a stand up crop next year for an easier harvest.
Good luck with that weather messed up crop. Maybe just slow way down and 'git 'er done' at slow speed before the rain hits.
Dwight E. Lambert, Albany, Oregon
 
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