[BrianTee]

Seems Syngenta is recommending spraying matador tank mixed with a fungicide early in the season even without insect pressure for a supposed yield benefit. But what are the costs?

At western forum there was discussion that the parasite that helps control wheat midge populations is killed in the canola phase of the oh so common wheat canola rotation thereby increasing midge populations in the wheat that will once again require spraying.

Seems like a good recommendation by a company who sells insecticides yet there is no regard for the destruction of beneficials.

The same is true for a fungus that reduced soybean mite populations in soybeans.

Everything is related and the prophylactic spraying of fungicide/insecticide, while beneficial to the chem seller, may be hurting you far more then you think. Nature has a way compensating both negatively and positively for every one of our actions.

Thoughts?

 

[8850jd]

Sounds like a 5% yield increase in both crops by spraying both...
The question then is do you have your own sprayer and do you have the time?

Likely the pressures from both insects are growing because of rotation limitations.
You will just increase your insect resistance and be forced back to a rotation or more expensive insecticides..
Personally I have been avoiding use unless I feel its worth it.. Sometimes its better to leave the bugs.

 

[SKfarming]

I haven't seen this yet, but the use of insecticides should only be considered IF there is insect pressure that will result in yield loss.
I look for a minimum 2:1 payback on insecticide applications, as I would rather not harm the beneficial insects unless absolutely necessary.

I think a recommendation for a blanket insecticide application is one of the most irresponsible recommendations that can be made.

I have been supporting syngenta a lot the last few years. If they are making recommendations like this I will have a chat with my rep. My support of a company making claims like this isn't required

 

[8850jd]

I had a similar thought this year about fungicides, and had a really bad soybean year, figured we wouldn't have had a crop anyways..
Then it started raining and things began to look up...

So I didn't spray because there didn't seem to be pressure, now harvesting them, I have pretty severe white mold issues...
Some times you win some times you loose..

I am going to be running cobra on all my beans next year because its cheaper and I don't need an extra pass..

The moral of the story is that I am sure you would see a benefit from doing it, but if your willing too is up to you.

 

[assault146]

I think a recommendation for a blanket insecticide application is one of the most irresponsible recommendations that can be made.

I have been supporting syngenta a lot the last few years. If they are making recommendations like this I will have a chat with my rep. My support of a company making claims like this isn't required

Couldn't agree more

 

[sinapisalba]

Irresponsible indeed. Some crazy figure like 99% of insect pest control is performed by other insects. A little discretion goes a long way.

 

[chance2]

Nature always adapts to change, either natural or man made.

 

[BrianTee]

Love how the magic 5 bushel response gets promoted, yet strip trials on pests that move seem to be quite difficult. I couldn't find any trial data.

 

[kirschenman]

Same guys that have one of the biggest used neonic (Cruiser) so they are implementing changes to keep bees safe on the seed treatment side, but advocating un-scouted foliar insecticides? Makes sense to me...

 

[sneeky]

I only use insecticides if I really have to (which hasn't been for years). My feeling is that predatory insects (goodies) multiply in reaction to their food source. So, for example, if we have increasing aphid pressure the insects preying on the aphids will multiply because there is an abundance of food available to them. My point is that the 'nasties' breed up first followed by the 'goodies' that feed off them. If I go and wipe everything out I am restarting the clock so to speak and have to wait for this cycle to kick off again.

I am by no means saying that I wont use insecticides, but this is why I wont use them all the time.

 

[kirschenman]

Syngenta Canada's twitter master says that it is only a recommended tank mix after scouting. But that probably just means that someone heard that someone's brother in the next county has cabbage seedpod weevils, so throw it in and let her buck!

 

[strech4020]

I will very rarely apply a fungicide without an insecticide in the mix. Just as an insecticide will kill beneficial's, so does a fungicide. To many times in the past I would be spraying for an insect population that exploded two weeks after my fungicide pass. For example sawflies or armyworm in wheat after the flowering treatment, or armyworm in corn after a V5 pass. Even westernbean cutworm can blow up after a tassel app in corn. The worst is when you get spidermites in the beans you sprayed at R3.

 

[SKfarming]

I will very rarely apply a fungicide without an insecticide in the mix. Just as an insecticide will kill beneficial's, so does a fungicide.

R u sure???
Some fungicides only prevent a spore from infecting the plant, thus not letting the fungus develop. I'm not sure what percentage of spores would actually be killed by a fungicide, but it would be very low. If a fungicide killed all the spores, a reapplication would not be required on isolated fields.

Everyone's practices and opinions are different, but I personally think just throwing in an insecticide is irresponsible.
And I would rather not handle insecticides unless absolutely necessary

 

[BrianTee]

I will very rarely apply a fungicide without an insecticide in the mix. Just as an insecticide will kill beneficial's, so does a fungicide. To many times in the past I would be spraying for an insect population that exploded two weeks after my fungicide pass. For example sawflies or armyworm in wheat after the flowering treatment, or armyworm in corn after a V5 pass. Even westernbean cutworm can blow up after a tassel app in corn. The worst is when you get spidermites in the beans you sprayed at R3.

Kill it - kill it all! Did you maybe consider you have so many insect issues because you consistently kill predators and parasites?

 

[Don Boles]

Great thread idea!

Great thread Brian and seems most on the same page!