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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have noticed since the newer emittion standards have been put in place, the a DEF exhaust smell makes me want to puke, and nausea is not uncommon when I am forced to work around machinery which the equipment that makes me sick..

(Kind of serious, kind of not.). But they are making the air cleaner which is directly affecting my health...?
 

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I do like the fact I can leave something running in the shop without it hazing it up. Granted it smells funny, and I'm not a huge fan of emmissions sys. But there is a benifit
 

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I have noticed since the newer emittion standards have been put in place, the a DEF exhaust smell makes me want to puke, and nausea is not uncommon when I am forced to work around machinery which the equipment that makes me sick..

(Kind of serious, kind of not.). But they are making the air cleaner which is directly affecting my health...?
Hello 8850jd
I remember a lot of years ago, my Dad sold some hay. That was back in the days of square bales & I don't recall how many bales it was or how long it took to take those bales out of the stack & stack them on the buyer's trailer. I was too young to help, I was just an observer.:) I do recall the guy leaving his semi idling & that cloud of smoke hanging in the air, full of particulates from the unburned fuel in the cold engine, & the smell. After they finished loading & he started to drive away, he slid off the trail & got stuck. It took about another hr. or so for my Dad to clear away all the snow & pull him out. I also do remember my Dad puking shortly after he pulled the guy out, complaining about the nauseating smell of the diesel exhaust. No DEF required!!!:eek:
 

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Sue th EPA is right!
There is no way these new emission standards are producing the results they aimed to get.
We are not getting cleaner air, and it is costing us a lot of downtime and lost production. Think about the production of DEF as urea. Every day there is fertilizer going through Diesel engines,fertilizer not used for food production, that in itself is keeping the cost our fertilizer up. In five years all these tier4 engines will be a nightmare for everybody. And if we truly were cleaning the air it would be worth it, but if you take in account the whole balance tier4 and DEF is an absolute SCAM.
 

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The Original Diesel engines were designed to run on vegetable oil. I wonder if we had stayed away from petrochemical base and stayed with veggie base what emissions would be? I think there are lots of diesels run on Germany from bio diesel,curios as to emissions
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
MCatshf...
I am sure your right, but the engines of 10 years ago would have never done that to your dad either. Why do we need the air cleaner coming out then going in?

Really the smell of exhaust is overwhelming at idle.
 

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I work with electronic diesels from 1990 to 2014, I have them running in the shop while troubleshooting and running tests all the time. Other then the 466 the biggest concern is using up the oxygen in the shop, these engines don't smoke or stink at all. We don't have any DEF engines yet but they do stink whenever I witness one (or several) running in parking lots (maybe they are trying to convince people to shut them down).

I'm with others that say DEF is causing way more pollution then it's eliminating. The process of manufacturing, distributing, storing, shipping, using, maintaining the product, related infrastructure and equipment is costing the environment dearly but it is good for the economy so I don't see it going anywhere anytime soon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The economics don't bother me, the engines became more efficient so we been less fuel.. Less money...
But really this stuff is not good for my health to work around.. You have to go at them with a liberal issue.. They don't care about how much money its coating you.
On the farm I don't get to drive the machines that have def, so I have to work around them more.. I think I could make that a legit concern..

Now to find a crack pot lawyer... ;)

Really though, diesel exhaust always went up... The def seems to come down... Like we are being exposed to atomized fertilizer... Has to cause cancer one day.
 

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Water and nitrogen vapour eh??? Maybe there could be a way of pumping it into the ground as fertilizer??? Some elaborate and expensive system of pipes and coolers maybe??? I'll have to look into that! I might be onto a money maker here!! Oh, wait a minute........ lol
 

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If you want to sue the EPA you should be talking with the major truck companies. Its no secret that the DEF, DPF, and EGR systems in heavy trucks have been somewhat problematic. If you want to put a dollar value on the cost of the emissions systems on place to start is in equipment down time. Then you could extrapolate that into costs to industry from late loads, and then onto increased costs for the consumer. As an example, one small local grain hauling company has an older Pete and a new international Lonestar. Both have cummins engines, the Pete just had the engine rebuilt at close to 2 mill km and runs strong every day. In the eight months that they have had the Lonestar, its been back to the shop 11 times, 5 of those it drove there, 6 times it was towed in by a tow truck. (This is kind of funny, one time they were having it towed, the tow truck was late because it was having emission problems.) They figure that their new truck has been down close to 2 months, because of failed sensors, and other electronic problems directly related to the emissions systems. One trip to the shop was to have the turbo changed as it failed in the first week.

So if you look at that as an example, there is a definite loss of money for that company. They could probably tell you close to an exact dollar amount that has been lost. I know that this is maybe the exception to the rule, but it seems that there are a lot more trucks being towed down the highway these days than there was ten years ago. If you talk to the fleet maintenance managers at the larger companies, one of my college friends works for Bison as a mechanic, and he will say that if the system works its ok, when it doesn't, f***en nightmare. They are getting better, but they are still having issues with sensors failing, wires chaffing and shorting, coolers plugging and so on and so forth. I'm sure that they could probably put together a pretty detailed report of what percentage of trucks have had issues, there down time, and what it has cost there company.

In the age of Just in time deliveries what does it cost a grocery store if there shelves are bare because the truck didn't arrive in time? I'm sure they could come up with a dollar value in lost sales.

And for those of us who have the DEF equipped farm equipment, what does it cost to loose an after noon in the middle of harvest because a sensor failed, and you have to wait for your dealer to find if they have one or not?

Going after them because it makes you sick, your probably not going to get much attention from the media after the first few days. I figure if you were to sue them for lest say a billion dollars in lost revenue, That might get some attention for a week. Heck then maybe someone would mention that DEF is made from natural gas, and they have to drill gas wells that pollute the ground when they frac the wells, and they ship natural gas in pipelines that leak, to factories, that have emissions. Oh boy the hippies are going to have a field day with this one. Mind you I don't think some of these hippies would be happy until were naked, living outside, licking moss from a rock.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Lol.. Moss on a rock.. Hahaha
..
But the hippies are the ones that wrote the laws, so you much see they don't care how much money other people loose... But if it makes a you pretty blonde white girl sic, I would say that is more likely to get their backing...
 

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Airlines fuel usage is in tonnes per hour. How much def fluid do they use? Is there any epa laws about their pollution? Some of the premiers we have only need a broom to get around. Real environmentally friendly way of traveling.
 

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Airlines fuel usage is in tonnes per hour. How much def fluid do they use? Is there any epa laws about their pollution? Some of the premiers we have only need a broom to get around. Real environmentally friendly way of traveling.
Zero def.

Good question, never heard of emission regs for jets. Doubt it.
Public pressure has cut noise down, cash has reduced fuel use over the years, reducing that yucky and so obvious black smoke.

While Allison could have used a broom her high end fly ways was part of her political demise.;)
 
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