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If you have a 2015-2018 lexion with the twin rotors, is there any capacity change by putting in the sunny brook components and has anyone run side by side with a stock model? Claas has made a lot of changes to their cylinders and impellers in the last few years and wondering if people are just remembering how good the sunnybrook was compared to stock on their old 500 series combine and just keep ordering the new models with sunnybrook?

I harvest spring wheat, barley, canola and peas. Straw and grain are both usually dry at harvest time. If side by side testing shows an advantage in dry conditions, how much advantage (5 or 10 or more %)? And which sunnybrook components are worth putting in? I know that Don is promoting his 0 degree aps caps, but they are still very unproven on rock protection and durability (I think Don trades combines yearly). I have never plugged an impeller, but have bent the grey door above the aps a few times.

If I could get 15% more capacity for $10-15,000 it would be a quick payback. Otherwise I will wait for the original stuff to wear out.
 

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If your factory items are brand new and they have dollar value, it would help make a decision on aftermarket.

When crop conditions are good, the factory items perform great. When the going gets tough, some of the aftermarket really shines. I also believe most of the aftermarket items are more durable when it comes to ingestion damage, run smoother, and can be easier to repair or rebuild.
 

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You might see a tangeble benefit in peas where you have to run slow speed as in smoother operation and an absolute lower speed possible with an higher inertia cylinder.

Wheat, Barley, Canola notsomuch. Nice always balanced though.
 

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Which model?

I ran a 780 with SB cyl and concave with high speed rotors next to a stock 780 all year. Where there is a difference is late at night or in tough conditions running slower cyl speeds. Definitely can push harder with the SB components in those conditions, but not sure you would see 10-15% on average even then. When dry I don't see a difference and we actually felt like the SB cyl cracked a bit worse than the stock cyl.

I plug my impeller once per year so far, usually pushing my limits. I think a SB impeller would help with that. The caps look like a good thing to try for a moderate cost. Where you will see a big gain is with the high speed rotors in cereals, I would be swapping mine out if I didn't already have them or if I was buying a 760.
 

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You will not gain capcity in normal conditions. It will allow you to run in conditions that the factory setup sometimes struggles in. The impeller would be the first thing I would put in if you are doing green stem soy beans or a lot of kiochia weed. One of my machines has a stock cylinder and one with a Sunny Brook. I see very little difference between the two. The Sunny brook impeller in my one machine really shines over a stock one in green ropey weeds or green soybeans.
 

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As I thought about it more the real gain is not running capacity but less down time from slugs and plugs. The high inertia stuff and better impeller will put through more ugly material before it plugs than the stock stuff.
 

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You get a real price on doing that swap? New gearboxes sound expensive
They aren't cheap but throwing grain out and/or slowing down to save grain is the thing that gets really expensive. Figure out what a threshing hour costs in a late-model combine and then expect that in your cereal acres you can get a minimum of 15% capacity increase it pays for the gearboxes pretty quick! Throwing grain over is even more frightening.
 

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If you have a 2015-2018 lexion with the twin rotors, is there any capacity change by putting in the sunny brook components and has anyone run side by side with a stock model? Claas has made a lot of changes to their cylinders and impellers in the last few years and wondering if people are just remembering how good the sunnybrook was compared to stock on their old 500 series combine and just keep ordering the new models with sunnybrook?

I harvest spring wheat, barley, canola and peas. Straw and grain are both usually dry at harvest time. If side by side testing shows an advantage in dry conditions, how much advantage (5 or 10 or more %)? And which sunnybrook components are worth putting in? I know that Don is promoting his 0 degree aps caps, but they are still very unproven on rock protection and durability (I think Don trades combines yearly). I have never plugged an impeller, but have bent the grey door above the aps a few times.

If I could get 15% more capacity for $10-15,000 it would be a quick payback. Otherwise I will wait for the original stuff to wear out.
I don’t know if you’d average 115% of stock or not.
To go Full Monty (ZAPS, cylinder, concave and impeller) It would be somewhere in your price range. Less than 2% ish of a cashed out new unit.
Too bad one couldn’t trade new Claas for new SB pieces, you’d make money even after installation cost!
If combine does not have variable speed feeder it’s an easier swap, if it has tracks it is FAR easier.

I like the cylinder as the staggered rasp bars and fully enclosed and heavier drum run smoother and is less likely to plug.

The multi crop concave is more open than stock.

Impeller has 24 staggered paddles, stock is 12 straight paddles. 6 X two sides.
Less likely to plug.

ZAPS, (Zero degree APS caps) the most interesting even if only the newest performance idea.
As my knowledge of Claas harvesting fundamentals increased so did Claas increase power levels.
When the 770 came along (still love that V8!) and pea feed rates increased I’d hear an odd rattling under the cab followed (very) closely by feeder plugging, APS plugging, or both if feed rate wasn’t reduced. Hmm. Well below power limit.
Got to studying the APS paddles and wondered both why smooth and -36 degree paddles feed as good as they do. Or do they?

In consultation (brain storming) with Dale at Sunnybrook Welding (SB) and several versions (including a complete drum version that wisely/fortunately never saw the light of day) later we have zero degree, 5 tooth bolt on cap replacements. ZAPS.
With even more power now on a 780 real testing occured on the first set of ZAPS in 2018.

My feeding issue was completely solved. Feeder back feeding eliminated. Feeding limited only by engine power or header. (Front). Crop/ground speed this year. Pea losses on a properly setup and run 780 with 12 section rotor concave machine are virtually zero.
Turns a 780 from a reliable 50 t/hr feeder to 70 t/hr.

Didn’t think it would have much effect with other crops.
There was a consistency of performance across all crops (peas, barley, wheat, canola) though this year I’ve never felt before, just seemed to feed smoother all the time.

Plugged the APS twice this year, canola swath bunches, once concave was down to 35 mm from 10.
Lowered concave to 50, backed feeder up a bit, engage at an idle, nothing rumbled, cleared out easier than normal. With the wedging action of the paddles gone and the more aggressive tearing action reduces downstream plugging chances I believe. I plugged nothing behind APS this year. I have no doubt the APS hogs less of the power pie with ZAPS as well.

Is there any loss of separation with ZAPS?
Don't know and with high speed rotors and 12 section separation it’s irrelavent with my setup. I run APS concave closed in wheat and canola anyway, open in barley and obviously peas.
I believe the 5 toothed ZAPS also thresh more perhaps increasing concave separation anyway.

Is there any difference is rock protection?
Not sure, haven’t seen behind ZAPS yet, dug (the correct word) many rocks out of the stone trap, snowed flat wheat.
I think overall rock protection will be a wash, both ZAPS and stock will put rocks in the trap, both will put the odd one through.

Any difference in feeder dust exit?
Tough call but it’s definitely not more.

I guess you could call it promoting ZAPS, other than improving the performance of my own machine there is nothing in this for me.
I do feel every Claas owner should at least give it a critical eye.

Funny you should say trade every year, not this year, nothing offered I don’t already have or need. This unit is far and away the most pleased across the board I’ve ever been.

Oddly quiet over at the Claas camp. Even more than usual.
Hmm..
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Don do the Aps caps fit on the Claas Aps Drum or do you need a sunnybrook Aps Drum? Been following your zero degree Aps threads and it sounds impressive. The anti plug turns the feederhouse off way too often in peas and canola.

Claas answer is to speed up the cylinder, which does feed way better, but it Cracks peas and canola too much.

I only mention the combine trading often because you would not really experience the long term wear, durability or maintenance.
 

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Don do the Aps caps fit on the Claas Aps Drum or do you need a sunnybrook Aps Drum? Been following your zero degree Aps threads and it sounds impressive. The anti plug turns the feederhouse off way too often in peas and canola.

Claas answer is to speed up the cylinder, which does feed way better, but it Cracks peas and canola too much.

I only mention the combine trading often because you would not really experience the long term wear, durability or maintenance.
The complete drum idea got axed. Version 1.0.

Simply unbolt stock cap, discard cap, bolt, washer and nut. 4 parts.
Bolt on ZAPS with serrated flange lock bolt. 2 parts.
If done without doing anything else lower headerless feeder all the way down to do through top feeder door. Remove the two cylinder bolts for speed range changing, leave them out, allows easy turning of just APS and cylinder.
The lastest ZAPS versions (about 2.3 and 2.4) will be cast and either non-boranized or boranized.

Auto stop has three sensitivity settings, I run mine on lowest, makes quite a difference and still works great.

I ran as low as 280 cylinder speed in peas at engine power limit in testing this fall, the extremely erratic crop made it very difficult to properly test mind you and the odd feeder shut down did occur although nothing ever actually plugged.

150 seperator hours and the caps appear pristine. However, they were the welded assembly and boranized version 2.2.
 

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Correct me if I am wrong, but were these APS caps not tested using a manufactured steel(welded) piece? I thought I heard you mention they would be produced from cast making them less expensive to manufacture? Would this possibly affect their ability to withstand rock impact? Don't need a bunch of golf ball size pieces of cast going through the machine...
 

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Correct me if I am wrong, but were these APS caps not tested using a manufactured steel(welded) piece? I thought I heard you mention they would be produced from cast making them less expensive to manufacture? Would this possibly affect their ability to withstand rock impact? Don't need a bunch of golf ball size pieces of cast going through the machine...
All correct and your rock damage concern was exactly the concern I immediately expressed on hearing of the cast plan.
Dale assures me the material and process used and especially if boranized will make them as ductile as a welded assembly.

Hope to see a cast sample this week.
 

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I probably couldn’t swing it as fast as the slowest ZAPS tip speed would be, lol!
Yeah me neither. On second thought maybe that is a bad idea, I could see the shrapnel ending up lots of places that wouldn't feel very good...

Maybe just trust the metal expert guy and just grab us a picture.:wink:
 
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