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What would cause a 2013 tractor with 3000 hrs to start burning antifreeze . Had local dealer tear engine apart and two rings inside the liners had failed allowing antifreeze to run by . It has pitted the block so the block is toast the crank also has wear marks in it . Just curious to why this would happen it started burning antifreeze about 30 hours ago
Tractor heated up Dealer came out and said the the themostat failed , installed new one and same problem two days later . This time was low on antifreeze . No real signs on dip stick of antifreeze in oil .
So now tractor sits at shop waiting on a short block motor with no warranty
 

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From what I can remember it is electrolysis of the antifreeze that breaks down the liner rings. That is why some have coolant filters with additives
 

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So now tractor sits at shop waiting on a short block motor with no warranty
Doesn't sound like needs a short block to me.
Sounds like the head is cracked and you need a long block or complete new drop in.
It has pitted the block so the block is toast the crank also has wear marks in it .
This is what happens when antifreeze maintenance schedule is ignored.
Coolant filters and additive testing and renewing the antifreeze at the recommended service intervals are supposed to prevent this.
 

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Can a guy add DCA-4 to long life antifreeze? We add it to regular antifreeze but am wondering if it can be done with long life antifreeze.
 

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You have an engine block there that I wouldn’t be excited to throw away. I have two sixties vintage tractors that have been in the family for 53 and 55 years respectively. Decades ago their blocks corroded out in the sealing area at the bottom of the sleeves. I had a shop line bore that area to an oversize then make and press in short steel inserts made from engine sleeves for a larger engine, then machine the inside diameter of the insert to the size of the OEM block.

The only trouble is the shop is gone, most likely the old guys are gone too. I’m going to ask someone else that I know could do this, if it’s something he would consider trying, since he realizes again, that farmers are pretty good customers when the oil patch goes bust. My old engines are both still holding coolant 25 or 30 years after the fixes.
 

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Can a guy add DCA-4 to long life antifreeze? We add it to regular antifreeze but am wondering if it can be done with long life antifreeze.
My understanding is NO, a local cat specialized mechanic that runs his own shop goes so far as to remove the filter housing or bypass it so that no one makes the mistake of putting a filter on that happens to have the DCA-4 additive in it if that engine is using long life coolant. I elected to keep my filter housing in tact ( on a highway tractor in this case ) after that conversation and use filters that I know contain nothing more then the filtering media as I like having a filter to clean out any debris. However there is actually an additive that I know can be bought at Cat designed for long life coolant to be used half way through the use of the coolants total life but even they didn't make use of it much or sell much of it as they say often the coolant gets dumped out for one reason or another every few years. I don't know what happens if DCA-4 additive is put into the wrong coolant but whatever it is I gather its not good for the chemistry of the long life coolant and therefore the engine. Here is the long life coolant extender from Cat although I can't claim its the correct product for a non Cat extended life coolant but other manufacturers also talk about the use of an extender additive if you read the fine print on the jug of antifreeze. 119-5152: Cat® ELC Extender | FINNING INTERNATIONAL INC.
 

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Northern how often do you think a guy should be changing the long life coolant? When ever I change the long life coolant I usually put normal life diesel antifreeze in and add DCA-4 each year. Sometimes when you buy used equipment or trucks it is hard to know what type of collant is in the engine. For th cost of changing it out a guy should probably be more proactive.
 

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Maybe I'm dreaming but wasn't there a thread a couple years ago about sleeve oring failure on these Iveco engines?
Thought it was on a high horsepower magnum tractor?
Certain serial number range?
 

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SouthernSK, that has been a good question as the answers vary it seems and what I will say here isn't written in stone but from what I have read from coolant manufacturer recommendations and mechanics. So some ELC coolants will state their product is good for up to 12000 hours but in the fine print it says with that Extender product half way through its life. Now how does 12000 hours compute to typical farm equipment .... well it doesn't from a time stand point !. So from mechanics I get the cautious side and partly given their past dealings with older style coolants and engine failures from pitted liners and so on and so some say 3 years and some say 4 years and that isn't with using any extenders etc as in "theory" its supposed to extend it to double that with the use of that extender product to 6 to 8 years of coolant total life. That may be changing it on the soon side as per the 3 or 4 years if limited hours are put on the engine but that has been the feedback I've received and so one can take that for what its worth.

An interesting observation as per a mechanic that helped with removing a cracked rad on a JD 9600 combine a couple of years ago and he recommended changing out the water pump and thermostat at the same time given the age and issues of those water pumps longevity, he was just utterly amazed at what the thermostat housing area looked like compared to what he normally would see on an engine of that vintage. He said there is NO rust ( which I didn't think there should be ) which he said has always been present in the thermostat area of older combine engines he has worked on. Now going back in time I used the green coolant as that was the normal coolant on the market, then some purple coolant which I can't recall the wonders of and its only in the last 6 years or so that I have been using the long life coolant and ironically changing it out more then I did with the old style coolant that should never have been used as long as it was between changes and I know so many of us are guilty of not changing coolant often enough with the old style coolants and unseen harm we have done internally.

The easiest would be to buy premixed coolant but I have been mixing the concentrated version and use a 50/50 mix and I use only distilled water as that is the problem with just using any old water with creating a problem right off the bat and not realize it. You mentioned used equipment and no idea what was put in it and that is so true, it could even have ELC in it but someone could have thrown in DCA-4 or put some normal coolant in it and compromised its life so I've just dumped coolant from an unknown prior history unit and started fresh with ELC and know what I have in it without question.
 

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We’ve never purposely changed the coolant on anything. Ever.
Does that mean its been changed due to hose leaks, rad issues etc instead or have never kept a piece of equipment around long enough for the effects to show themselves ?. One example that was rather eye opening was a neighbor who has a Pete with a C-15 and a couple of years ago it began to blow coolant out the overflow tube so he put a bottle on the tube to see how much and it kept on pumping it out any time he would work it even a little bit to pull his sprayer down the road a few miles. He had a mechanic come to his farm and tear into the engine and every liner had severe cavitation erosion but one was just a bit worse and had made its way right through the liner. It looked like worm holes on the outside of each liner and that is caused from coolant that is no longer able to do its job.
 

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Never anything more than top up if something needed it and we have lots of old stuff around as well. Overhaul all our own stuff and have yet to see a liner fail to cavitation on anything.
 

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Hope that keeps up for you as it certainly can happen and for that matter also plugged rads, leaking rads or sooner anyway then if the coolant was in better shape when it comes to copper rads due to solder bloom accelerated due to poor coolant. Even the water pump seal depends on coolant that isn't some rust slurry to lube itself so it doesn't fail prematurely taking out the water pump bearing with it.
 

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does this have the same faulty o rings that the 8.7 had from 12-14? case will still rebuild those on warranty, or mostly subsidize a whole new engine. between my relatives i think there has been around 10 done after the warrenty was supposed to be up. they had multiple suppliers and one of them made the liner o rings out of spec. they all got mixed together so case decided they wouldnt recall and would fix as fail
 

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I have generally not changed antifreeze of whichever type it is unless maybe changing a water pump or rad on a 10 - 20 - 50 year old engine. Have never had a liner failure. Touch wood! I have seen rusty colored antifreeze and will change it after a flush with a caustic cleaner. My antifreeze seems to stay clean and green or red. I do change the coolant filters that have the DCA charge in them on engines that have filters. Lots of engines don't have filters though. Another thing to check with coolant is the PH which should be about 9, or slightly alkaline I believe. What causes the PH to change that some people or engines need to change coolant and some get away without?

In regards to the OP with a 2013 T9 450 with only 3000 hours on it, I wouldn't think antifreeze should be a concern. Is that the Iveco 12.8 liter? I do remember my Dad having a new 1982 Versatile 835 with the 230 HP version of the Cummins 855 and from changing the coolant filter too often for the low hours put on the DCA got too strong according to the test strips. We drained half the coolant out and traded with a tractor that the DCA was low on. Never had any problems though.
 

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We’ve never purposely changed the coolant on anything. Ever.
I have generally not changed antifreeze of whichever type it is unless maybe changing a water pump or rad on a 10 - 20 - 50 year old engine. Have never had a liner failure. Touch wood!
Ok now you two should go and buy some lottery tickets.
Because you are definitely in the minority.
 

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Another vote for rarely change. Typically change the antifreeze when I have to do things like change a water pump or replace a hose. We do tend to run only CoolGard, and we test each year with the strips. I haven't yet found a sample that so much as indicated we needed more additive. Granted most machines are under 10 years old and we don't rack up the hours like many of you do.
 

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Torriem, that reminds me I was at a JD spiel a few years ago with some reps from head office and of course it has the drink the green JD KoolAid theme to such presentations but never the less they were talking about their oils and coolants. They had a display table with cylinder liners that were horribly pitted and failed as an example of the also ran coolant and yes of course a sales/scare tactic to get a guy thinking he had to run JD coolant but in saying that the JD coolant is not the old traditional coolant and I have a feeling that is part of the reason why its showing up so good on your test strips and guessing visually as well. Its a good question as to how long these modern coolants can last with a sound engine which doesn't get much use. As I mentioned before I know I was not keeping up well enough with coolant changes with the old style coolant and seeing some effects with plugging rads or rust in the overflow tanks of older gas pickups and so decided to change my ways somewhat and also change over to the long life coolant and in order to not mix things up I was changing the coolant on most engines and no longer using the old style coolant to accidentally pour that into what had been good long life coolant. Here is a link to the JD coolant as it talks about 6 years ( that probably means that extender product used half way along I would guess ) . I rather doubt the original poster had an actual coolant issue either, it certainly was caused by something though which could be cooling related, oil or oil system related, fuel injector related etc.

 
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