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He figured he had about 2/3 the life running on heat as opposed to running the air conditioner.
Do the Tesla cars create heat with just resistive heaters, or do they run a heat pump (turn the AC compressor around)? I guess a heat pump doesn't work after it gets to -20 or so.
 

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I'd rather be trapped in a vehicle with a propane tank that is venting and burning somewhere outside the passenger compartment than have a pool of gasoline underneath the whole car on fire......!!!
Yeah, a ruptured propane tank doesn't just vent and burn to some planned area. It erupts with force. I'd agree if in a collision the tank vents via a relief valve but typically that's not how things work.

Danger factor with a compressed gas or liquid is higher too due to it being compressed. Compression = explosion when the carrying vessel is compromised.

Poke a hole in the top of a gas tank, nothing happens. Poke a hole in the top of a compressed gas cylinder, well...
 

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Mining Lithium = Emissions

Mining Oil + Emissions

Building Solar panels or wind towers = Emnissions

Renewable - solar generated during day gets stored in battery at night for charging

Building Batteries = Emmissions

So can some explain to me what we are really saving with the electric car?

In my world of data analysis and life cycle costing for mobile equipment - this need proper analysius to see if your actually using less emissions.

Ant....
 

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Its amazing how single line data is used to determine an outcome, baffles me to be honest.

Ant...
 

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From a purely money point of view, I think that one data point is probably all you need to worry about. The operational cost of the vehicle is going to be a fraction of the cost of a gasoline vehicle. Doesn't matter what the total environmental cost is.

But as far as environmental impact is concerned, I don't think very many people would use that single data point to determine the outcome.

Obviously the overall situation is nuanced.

The manufacturing carbon footprint of a Tesla car is about the same as a regular gasoline-powered car, even if you account for battery manufacturing.

Electricity from coal definitely doesn't help electric cars win any wards for CO2 emissions and probably not for nox or particulates. But even there, it's easier to clean up the tailpipe of a power plant than it is to clean up individual cars. And natural gas-produced electricity is that much cleaner again. Eventually, though, if we all drove electric cars, we'd really need nuclear I think.
 

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I'd rather be trapped in a vehicle with a propane tank that is venting and burning somewhere outside the passenger compartment than have a pool of gasoline underneath the whole car on fire......!!!

Yeah, a ruptured propane tank doesn't just vent and burn to some planned area. It erupts with force. I'd agree if in a collision the tank vents via a relief valve but typically that's not how things work.

Danger factor with a compressed gas or liquid is higher too due to it being compressed. Compression = explosion when the carrying vessel is compromised.

Poke a hole in the top of a gas tank, nothing happens. Poke a hole in the top of a compressed gas cylinder, well...
Ugh.... a propane tank exploding is not what "typically " happens in an accident.... they only have about 100 psi on a warm day....
What you see in action movies is not real life...
 

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From a purely money point of view, I think that one data point is probably all you need to worry about. The operational cost of the vehicle is going to be a fraction of the cost of a gasoline vehicle. Doesn't matter what the total environmental cost is.

But as far as environmental impact is concerned, I don't think very many people would use that single data point to determine the outcome.

Obviously the overall situation is nuanced.

The manufacturing carbon footprint of a Tesla car is about the same as a regular gasoline-powered car, even if you account for battery manufacturing.

Electricity from coal definitely doesn't help electric cars win any wards for CO2 emissions and probably not for nox or particulates. But even there, it's easier to clean up the tailpipe of a power plant than it is to clean up individual cars. And natural gas-produced electricity is that much cleaner again. Eventually, though, if we all drove electric cars, we'd really need nuclear I think.
How do you know the cost of maintaining a electric car is going to be way less ? Besides fluid changes won’t the rest be similar ? I guess time will tell if they actually get any amount on the road.
 

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If you forget to filll up(recharge) could really screw up your plans the next day ! Imagine sitting at your combine broke down getting ready to go get parts and you realize you don’t have enough battery power !
 

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Ugh.... a propane tank exploding is not what "typically " happens in an accident.... they only have about 100 psi on a warm day....
What you see in action movies is not real life...
The big risk with propane is that it is heavier than air and a leak will cause propane to gather around an accident site unseen until a spark ignites it. A gasoline leak can be seen and felt with accordingly by emergency crews. Propane, not so much. A Far greater danger to emergency crews on the scene.
 

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From a purely money point of view, I think that one data point is probably all you need to worry about. The operational cost of the vehicle is going to be a fraction of the cost of a gasoline vehicle. Doesn't matter what the total environmental cost is.
Only until there are enough electric cars on the road. Then the price will jump to similar to the cost to run gas/diesel today except that you will be paying $1500 per month for electricity for your house.

But as far as environmental impact is concerned, I don't think very many people would use that single data point to determine the outcome.

Obviously the overall situation is nuanced.

The manufacturing carbon footprint of a Tesla car is about the same as a regular gasoline-powered car, even if you account for battery manufacturing.

Electricity from coal definitely doesn't help electric cars win any wards for CO2 emissions and probably not for nox or particulates. But even there, it's easier to clean up the tailpipe of a power plant than it is to clean up individual cars. And natural gas-produced electricity is that much cleaner again. Eventually, though, if we all drove electric cars, we'd really need nuclear I think.
Since CO2 is as essential to life on earth as oxygen and water, reducing the emission of it is counter productive to a healthy planet.
 

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.............................
Since CO2 is as essential to life on earth as oxygen and water, reducing the emission of it is counter productive to a healthy planet.
It really is time to take your head out of the sand and stop quoting this bilge. It was okay to have doubts about the turn of the century but the science and ACTUAL measurement that we have in 2018 is so solid that the only way you could still be a denier is to be willfully ignorant. And yes I do realize that puts the hair implant in that category!
 

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Ugh.... a propane tank exploding is not what "typically " happens in an accident.... they only have about 100 psi on a warm day....
What you see in action movies is not real life...
I can't let that slide. There is no such thing as a "typical" accident scene. Yeah they have 100 PSI on a warm day. Add in a vehicle fire with a slightly compromised tank and the the situation is not good.

I've said it before, if every time I believed something couldn't happen at a fire scene I'd be dead.
 

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Mining Lithium = Emissions

Mining Oil + Emissions

Building Solar panels or wind towers = Emnissions

Renewable - solar generated during day gets stored in battery at night for charging

Building Batteries = Emmissions

So can some explain to me what we are really saving with the electric car?

In my world of data analysis and life cycle costing for mobile equipment - this need proper analysius to see if your actually using less emissions.

Ant....

Just like DEF.
 

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In time, the total operating costs would be the same, don't forget the taxes that could be added to hydro to bring the prices up to par with current fuel prices.
 

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Ii make the power plant run on lng, why not make the car run on lng?

Whoops we already did that...hmmm

Ant...
 

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they are lectric, but have a hydrogen engine that charges the batteries. Buildign Hydrogen fueling stations across North america.


https://nikolamotor.com/motor
Too dangerous, it will never take off.

Diesel and gas are like water in the event of a collision compared to hydrogen.

What I was primarily getting at is you say fuel as a gas compressed in a tank is too dangerous, it wont take off.... I say why not, when we already have CNG and LPG.... what's the difference?
If anything since hydrogen is lighter than air... would make it safer than LPG in case of a ruptured tank at an accident.
 

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Ugh.... a propane tank exploding is not what "typically " happens in an accident.... they only have about 100 psi on a warm day....
What you see in action movies is not real life...
I can't let that slide. There is no such thing as a "typical" accident scene. Yeah they have 100 PSI on a warm day. Add in a vehicle fire with a slightly compromised tank and the the situation is not good.

I've said it before, if every time I believed something couldn't happen at a fire scene I'd be dead.
When I say typical I mean what happens MOST of the time....(statistically) if tanks were exploding at every LPG vehicular accident they wouldn't be allowed anymore.... yea of course there is always a worst case scenario. That not what I'm talking about.
 
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