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Tier 4 engines

4446 Views 16 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  frantbk
Hard to tell sarcasim.... tier 4's BS and i think its more of a urea than NOS... lol

atleast there going the way of urea and not like deere...

Dad was contacted a while back by case asking which he would rather have... after he answered them they said well what if in another 5 years unless something big changes we will have to use urea anyway....

well guess we will use it...

Adding once a week would be long as its simple like they claim and isn't a issue then i guess it won't be terrible.....

sorry to be so negative......i just don't think many are impressed with tier 3's so far and im not sure how this will be better
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A) Agco has an iT4 engine with no EGR on it. Most fuel efficient tractor ever tested in Nebraska and Europe.

B) Final Tier 4 will required EGR and maybe DOC/DPF. Deere is going with a DPF system, which means they also need the EGR.

C) SCR engines are more fuel efficient because they are optimized for power and fuel production, not for exhaust gas recycling. SCR actually helps with particulate emissions because the combustion process is optimized (again because exhaust gases are not recirculated).

D) Agco's SCR equipped tractors cost the same as EGR equipped versions. And SCR is probably cheaper to manufacture than EGR too. Small additional tank, pump, metering, nozzle and catalyst chamber, and ECU. Sounds a lot better than DOC/DPF. And about filling an additional tank... no big deal. Either way you'll have to fill up either a smaller AdBlue tank or the diesel tank. Personally I prefer filling up on AdBlue than diesel

E) I must be the only person in the ag world to agree with the emission regs... I want my kids to live in a clean world, but it sounds like most people don't care about anyone who will live after them. Just my .02

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Officially Deere is going to use DOC/DPF in all its products for iT4. However SCR may be used to meet Final T4. However I find it a little bit scary that all manufacturers but Agco have yet to release iT4 products and they seem to keep their customers in the dark. Agco has done a good job at marketing SCR, so this marketing work will also benefit CNH. However it appears to me that Deere has done very little to help understand DOC/DPF. Are they afraid of farmers reactions... or are they not ready???

I'm looking forward to this summer's intro. They technically have to release updated 8Rs, as well as the 7R and 9R series. And iT4 combines and choppers too. I doubt this will happen all in one shot. They will have to pay big fines for every Tier 3 engine they sell after Jan 1 2011, unless they have some "credits" for starting to sell Tier 3 engines before they had to. The overall feeling I get from many people in the industry is that Deere is not as ready as it should, and may be struggling with some unexpected consequences of using DPF (specially heat load).

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I may have typed to soon as to what the Ag company's are doing to meet the new regs. I mainly based my statements on what the new diesel pickup and OTR trucks are doing. The 2010 1/2 Ford, GM and heavy Dodge all have EGR, DPF, and SCR/urea injection. From test results that I have read fuel efficiency has not been improved and operating cost has taken a jump because of the increased manufacturing/initial purchase cost and the extra cost of DEF-Diesel Exhaust Fluid. A diesel engine option in a 2010 pickup truck is 12 grand+. DEF is projected to cost about what diesel costs. My thinking is it is going to end up costing much more tho as DEF is urea our main nitrogen source used in fertilizer. In the next few years as more and more diesels world wide start to use urea just think what its going to do to fertilizer prices. It also has several problems in its self, mainly its very corrosive and it freezes. So the whole injection system has to be heated. The government is always screaming about conserving natural resources but their very regulations cause large reductions in fuel efficiency and increased usage of other resources [Urea] to meet their regulations. What's next?, CO collectors that scrub CO from the exhaust, bottle it and require us to pay to put it in some type of storage?! I better quit I'm probably giving someone some new ideas to make our life harder and our bank accounts smaller.

Remember that highway emission regulations are approx. one Tier ahead of off-road applications. Which is why SCR, DOC/DPF and EGR are all combined. However this may very well be what's waiting for us for Tier 4 final in 2014. As far as your comment on SCR... if you compare an engine with EGR to one with SCR for emission treatment, you will find fuel savings of up to 5-10%. Considering you will use AdBlue at a rate of up to 3% of fuel consumption, this leaves you with at least 2% fuel saving over EGR. AdBlue is corrosive, so tank is in plastic, with stainless steel piping. It has to be heated, but heat comes from the engine coolant. It also has to be cooled in the summer (now that's more of a problem... I can't remember what Fendt and Agco are using for this part). But it is still better than having to replace a $5000 particulate filter every couple 1000 hours.

As I said I agree with setting more aggressive emission standards. However I will have to agree with you that there is no point in reducing emissions if it means burning significantly more fuel. Might look into that for a paper at school
However the main reason why I find this emission/aftertreatment technology interesting is that it will probably help make some kind of breakthrough to improve significantly fuel consumption. SCR is the starting point. Agco has produced the most fuel efficient tractor ever tested by using SCR. And it doesn't cost anything more that EGR when you buy the tractor...

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