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So I wanted to sell what I had left for CWRS in bags today at local elevator. They sent price out via text in morning and was satisfied with price so I called to book in tons.

The elevator agent told me they had room, but they were suspending grain buying for the day as they planned on widening the basis tomorrow and they could buy it for a lower price tomorrow.

WHAT THE F***.

Why exactly am I trying to get top price for my grain when I'm told it cannot be bought at that price? It's hard to believe is even legal to f*** someone over that point blank.
 

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Really glad that I took out basis on remaining wheat last week, basis has gone up over $10/tonne since then. Reminds me of last year.:eek: Guys need to separate basis and futures to get the best price now more than ever.

The real question is: How much upside is left in the market? Over +$1.50/bu to get up around last spring's high. Seems to be accelerating to the upside, and when grain companies are building in margin protection it makes you wonder if a big move is on the horizon???

Just think if you were a grain company and you had to "offer" a price not knowing how many tonnes could walk in the door! I would build in some buffer if things got crazy, would you?;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Just think if you were a grain company and you had to "offer" a price not knowing how many tonnes could walk in the door! I would build in some buffer if things got crazy, would you?;)
I understand they can only handle so many tonnes, but they clearly stated they have the room, they would just prefer to buy it tomorrow when they widen their basis so they can put more money in their pockets. Simply pure greed
 

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Welcome to the REAL grain world and the land of the grain merchants and transportation systems. When grain prices are very high, history dictates that very little grain changes hands. Why? Because all of the grain has disappeared out of the hand of the bulk of the farmers already! These days you not only need to try to sell your grain at the highest price but also be aware that you don't want to be the last one holding out because nobody will buy it from you.
I know of a story where one farmer had 600 bushels of canola left in the bottoms of his bins. Canola hit $15/bushel and he was going to capitalize on it! Too late he woke up to the fact that no one else had any canola left to sell! No grain company would buy it from him! Yes, the market price was high but no delivery opportunity existed. That is why the phrase "Brand the cattle when the iron is hot" rings so true!! Sorry about your bad luck!

Grain companies do what they want. They have clauses in their contract like dockage, HVK (HVAC) or protein so they can manipulate you and win! I was reviewing durum contracts where they deduct $.10 for every 1 point of HVK less than 85% down to a minimum of 70%. If you have 95% HVK does that mean they pay you an additional $1.00/bushel? Are you Kidding? They do the same with the proteins! Of course all dockage is new found money. They sell it and remove it from your pocket like shrinkage! That is the real world of merchandising!

http://www.thecombineforum.com/foru...lbums-mypics-picture7618-grain-trade-zoo.html
 

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I understand they can only handle so many tonnes, but they clearly stated they have the room, they would just prefer to buy it tomorrow when they widen their basis so they can put more money in their pockets. Simply pure greed
Yes I know it doesn't seem right but these companies are in business to make money and they have to get it somewhere...

Main thing is to not get caught having to sell. If you have to sell(cashflow, grainbags...) at a particular time you need to have those plans made in advance by at least locking in basis. Last minute can get you in trouble because, as noted, they don't have to buy.

Last year there were lots of guys in the position of "needing" to sell at pretty much exactly this time of year and they got hosed! Just need to remember this for next time.;)
 

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So I wanted to sell what I had left for CWRS in bags today at local elevator. They sent price out via text in morning and was satisfied with price so I called to book in tons.

The elevator agent told me they had room, but they were suspending grain buying for the day as they planned on widening the basis tomorrow and they could buy it for a lower price tomorrow.

WHAT THE F***.

Why exactly am I trying to get top price for my grain when I'm told it cannot be bought at that price? It's hard to believe is even legal to f*** someone over that point blank.
This sounds like you must be dealing with Cargill.
 

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I understand they can only handle so many tonnes, but they clearly stated they have the room, they would just prefer to buy it tomorrow when they widen their basis so they can put more money in their pockets. Simply pure greed
If all you say is true, The elevator has a legal obligation. Contact the CGC to do their job and enforce the Canadian Grain Act, that reads under:

Section 60. Subject to section 58 and any order made under section 118, the operator of every licensed primary elevator shall, at all reasonable hours on each day on which the elevator is open, without discrimination and in the order in which grain arrives and is lawfully offered at the elevator, receive into the elevator all grain so lawfully offered for which there is, in the elevator, available storage accommodation of the type required by the person by whom the grain is offered.
 

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If all you say is true, The elevator has a legal obligation. Contact the CGC to do their job and enforce the Canadian Grain Act, that reads under:

Section 60. Subject to section 58 and any order made under section 118, the operator of every licensed primary elevator shall, at all reasonable hours on each day on which the elevator is open, without discrimination and in the order in which grain arrives and is lawfully offered at the elevator, receive into the elevator all grain so lawfully offered for which there is, in the elevator, available storage accommodation of the type required by the person by whom the grain is offered.
Furthermore If everything is true, I think if the CGC started to enforce Sec 107 of the Act a lot of this and other disputes would be gone, including miss representation of grade, DKG and protein. That is why it was put in the act in the first place.

Sec 107(2) reads:

(2) Every person who contravenes any provision of this Act, other than section 72, or of the regulations or any order of the Commission, other than an order for the payment of any money or apportionment of any loss, is guilty of an offence and
(a) if an individual, is liable
(i) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding six thousand dollars or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one year, or to both, or
(ii) on conviction on indictment, to a fine not exceeding twelve thousand dollars or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years, or to both; or
(b) if a corporation, is liable
(i) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding nine thousand dollars, or
(ii) on conviction on indictment, to a fine not exceeding eighteen thousand dollars.
 

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Section 60. Subject to section 58 and any order made under section 118, the operator of every licensed primary elevator shall, at all reasonable hours on each day on which the elevator is open, without discrimination and in the order in which grain arrives and is lawfully offered at the elevator, receive into the elevator all grain so lawfully offered for which there is, in the elevator, available storage accommodation of the type required by the person by whom the grain is offered.
I wonder exactly what "lawfully offered" really means here, not in lawyer language? Is this grain already sold for that delivery month? As RunninREDharD noted the fine print in most every contract excuses them from almost everything.:eek: Do the grain companies legally have to offer a bid at all times? Because having a no-bid is actually very common when the market gets volatile.

The farmer needs to have a good relationship with his grain buyer because the railroads......."don't haul the grain when it is lawfully offered"!:(
 

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I wonder exactly what "lawfully offered" really means here, not in lawyer language? Is this grain already sold for that delivery month? As RunninREDharD noted the fine print in most every contract excuses them from almost everything.:eek: Do the grain companies legally have to offer a bid at all times? Because having a no-bid is actually very common when the market gets volatile.

The farmer needs to have a good relationship with his grain buyer because the railroads......."don't haul the grain when it is lawfully offered"!:(
Good questions, Maybe it is time the CGC stepped up and publicly defined the law in layman's terms so we can maintain our relationships with elevators and each other.
 

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Sorry for your misfortune in dealing with unscrupulous grain agent.
Unfortunately -- due to lack of delivery options for many producers who are not fortunate to farm close to the border or have conveneient non-elevator rail transport facilities -- your story going to get repeated over and over and over again I think.
 

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Good questions, Maybe it is time the CGC stepped up and publicly defined the law in layman's terms so we can maintain our relationships with elevators and each other.
Unfortunately the clause in the Canada Grain Act as a mandate to "uphold producers rights" has been conveniently forgotten and removed so that producers are put on equal footing with the grain companies. This means you have a right to hire your own lawyer and fight your case against a corporate lawyer. Unfortunately, the producer is no longer protected by law like was once in place. These protections are no longer necessary in a free and democratic society since everyone is equal In the end, you are a bottom feeder and kept down there. The sharks come along and devour you at will!

Lets not get started on this. We all know why the "Crow" had to go. Pasta plants and value added companies were going to populate the landscape like never before! No different than cattle industry when BSE hit and we were going to have all kinds of momma and papa companies cutting up meat in bringing the value of the product right back home where it belonged!;)
 

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We are fortunate enough that we have lots of competition here and even if they are widening the basis I've had my grain buyer call me and say they will widen it and to lock some in today.

We had a dispute with Viterra several years ago and we haven't hauled there until this fall, they seem to be a bit nicer again.

We used to deal lots with Cargill but in the last few years they have been the lowest priced players...hauled 1 load of wheat in this year and they had all kinds of issues with dockage, mildew, etc. needless to say will not go back there.

We have shipped across the line as well and that has worked out really well even though we had mildew issues.

It pays to shop around.

Wheat seems to be the hardest to market because of everybody having different grading criteria. That's maybe the reason wheat is not a major grain anymore on our farm.
 
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