[aras]

Hello -

We usually always make one trip across corn with a cultivator. Also hire a spreading of urea too. This year we are thinking about putting dry fertilizer boxes on our 6 row cultivator and dropping urea between the rows while we cultivate. Anyone done this? or see a problem with this?

 

[SouthernSK]

In checking into this this fall they say if you can put it in 3 inches deep or band it in with a knife using the cultivator you will minimise the losses. The close to the surface the greater the chance of loss.

 

[MCatSHF]

Hello Aras
Cheating on Banding Depth Puts Urea at Risk - Real Agriculture

 

[AbCan]

Going liquid is the safest if tilling anyway. Minimize loss, and get good accurate placement. All depends on supply and price in your area and cost to set up banding equipment, so might not be economical.

 

[aras]

Interesting comments -- I assume by liquid you mean 28% which is expensive in this area. At least compared to urea nitrogen units!

 

[Combine Pilot]

I really have a hard time understanding urea, all the articles i have read talk like it is this real sensitive product, and if you look at it wrong it will disappear. When i spill some on the yard i scoop as much as possible with my hand brushing it into a shovel, i have a dead spot for years. I use it to kill weeds around my building's, i grab handfuls and pepper the ground and the dirt stays black. i tried it with a pail of S15 that sat for over a year in the shop it was laying on top of the ground and it did the opposite i had the biggest weeds ever seen.
My dad for some reason used to clean out the drill and put urea in old canola bags and leave them hidden all over in the back of buildings, some were close to 20 years old, and hard as a rock, but when i cut them open after they bleed for years and corroded everything near by, they still were as powerful as the fresh stuff. they way things are stated why didn't 20 lbs of urea evaporate when sitting in a weaved plastic bag for over 15 years. urea to me acts like creeping oil it melts with moisture and thins and bleeds along in the earth. As for the dead spots i know there is still a toxic amount of nitrogen there, and not just a high salt index, because at the edge where the grass grows it is the thickest, and greenest where the concentration drop's down not to burn plants, and if it was a salt index the plant's would be the weakest at the edge then getting normal the farther out you go from the spill. and it is exposed to all the elements of rain and snow to leach out and evaporate.
Another place that dad shoveled about hundred pounds of 46-0-0 out of the truck, and flung it on the field right on top of the earth where it stayed all year, and burnt the crop in those spots. to this day the crop still lodges in this area and this was an area on top of a clay hill that had such spindly crop it was almost not worth farming. that is going on 7 years now, and still you can see where every scoop landed and smeared. The way they talk about urea and its volatilization it should be gone in a year or two. the nitrogen in the soil on that hill will outlive my dad and he was done farming about 5 years ago.
i don't know, what i read is not reflecting what i see on my farm. maybe i am full of it. but i have banded with my hole drill, and broadcasted and incorporated with my cultivator, with the same amounts and i can't tell the difference. Maybe i just don't know what to look for, but my gut says it is not that critical as long as it is in the ground and covered.

 

[aras]

The coop just broadcast urea on some fields. Never working it in

 

[brazil07]

Dia-urea

With all the questions on what is "proper" urea handling the nitrogen loss police must be getting lots of advertising out. Guess if poster had nitrogen broadcast and than tilled in or seeded it before, not sure what would be different by putting it through box mounted on cultivator except that would "save" broadcasting cost - cheap mans airseeder. However, think the bigger issue is nobody knows what sort of nitrogen efficiency they really getting and depending on timing, climate, crop, nitrogen source, and even more specific conditions think this varies a bunch. Once you find that sweet spot of nitrogen efficiency you need to make sure it matches how you can fit this into whatever size operation your running - call that application efficiency.

 

[Combine Pilot]

"Dia-urea"

Friggin hilarious, lol

 

[aras]

I see a little confusion here with what I posted. This is on corn that is knee high. Urea is spread with a high boy spreader then cultivated in.

 

[Bubbaracing]

I did it this year. I also did strips where I only cultivated without urea and you could see the difference. The main reason I cultivated was because of all the rain we had I wanted to open up the top where it had crusted over. The cultivator was one someone had sitting in there barn for about 10 -15 years. It has hoppers over each row with a drop tube on each side of the row. So the urea gets tiled in. Capacity is about 250 lbs each or 1,500 lbs total.

 

[aras]

Bubbaracing -- where are you located?

 

[MCatSHF]

Another place that dad shoveled about hundred pounds of 46-0-0 out of the truck, and flung it on the field right on top of the earth where it stayed all year, and burnt the crop in those spots. to this day the crop still lodges in this area and this was an area on top of a clay hill that had such spindly crop it was almost not worth farming. that is going on 7 years now, and still you can see where every scoop landed and smeared. The way they talk about urea and its volatilization it should be gone in a year or two. the nitrogen in the soil on that hill will outlive my dad and he was done farming about 5 years ago.

Hello Combine Pilot
So you figure that none of that N went up into the air???
Let's just say that 100 lbs. of 46-0-0 that he tossed covered a strip 2' x 5' = 10 square feet for easy figuring. 1 acre = 43560 square feet. 43560/10 x 100=435600 lbs./acre x 46% = 200,376 lbs./acre of actual N. So if you broadcast 200,376 lbs./acre of actual N you figure that none would be lost? No doubt that you'll see the effects of that much N for years, decades to come. Doesn't mean that none was lost.

 

[uthinkyourwet?]

When I use urea, I wait for a real good chance of rain, and let the rain take it down. Has never failed me. But here it rains with no fail...

 

[Bubbaracing]

aras... I am in western New York

 

[MCatSHF]

Hello Aras
What kind of fertilizer boxes do you plan to use?

 

[nddurumman]

Combine pilot I agree with what you have seen with the urea. I used 1895 with mid row banders and nh3 and will never do that again. Urea is a lot more stable. When we spread urea on the edges of the field in the grass it is green for a few years. I took nh3 and ran the drill in the grass last spring and all I had was a small somewhat green strip. I also have spread agro liquid high N on our grass and wow. If I had cows I would spread that stuff on the pasture.

 

[Combine Pilot]

Hello Combine Pilot
So you figure that none of that N went up into the air???
Let's just say that 100 lbs. of 46-0-0 that he tossed covered a strip 2' x 5' = 10 square feet for easy figuring. 1 acre = 43560 square feet. 43560/10 x 100=435600 lbs./acre x 46% = 200,376 lbs./acre of actual N. So if you broadcast 200,376 lbs./acre of actual N you figure that none would be lost? No doubt that you'll see the effects of that much N for years, decades to come. Doesn't mean that none was lost.

i just would like to see some evidence besides people saying, show me how i can prove it right in front of me. I never said it didn't go up in air, i just never see it with the with evidence of having it laying around in open air. if A certain percentage evaporates, then it must be slow because if i not see in the effects over 20 years then, LIKE I SAID I DON'T KNOW. If a certain % evaporates every year then at some point it would be zero RIGHT, especially if it was contained from leaching and could only evaporate. Yep, i went back and reread what i wrote, no where did i say non evaporated. i would like to see it like when you leave a cup full of fuel and come back a week later and the cup is empty, surely there is something that demonstrates this effect whether it is by weight, or volume, or wear some goofy glasses that sees the gas, is there a way for me to gauge the rate, beside testing soil and applying fert then waiting a certain time then test the soil again and presume the test and sampling was exact and non leached. Is it enough of a percentage to justify buying a new piece of equipment for my little farm, am i dropping dollars to pick up nickels. if it is 2-3% then i can live with that, is it 20-30% then, i can justify spending money. Also i am not that young, what will the pay back be in years. sure you can throw all of the university testing in my face, but it has to apply to my economics and time span. Like i said "i don't know" because i can't quantify it.
i said i tried both operations on the same field and did not see any difference. maybe they're both flawed i don't know. There has to be some whipper snapper who can tell me to try something in front of me or in a small scale. can i put a piece of paper or something upside down in a pail out in a field somewhere, and cause a reaction that say's yes, see that, that is because.
Also does using an extra 5% more urea to mitigate loss, to buying another piece of equipment implicate you on income tax, the urea may be more of a tax break then the % depreciation of the equipment bought to save that 5%.

OCCAM RAZOR

 

[mbfarmer]

Why do you cultivate the corn at all? Why not just use nh3 preplant? You could just use ams and not cultivate. It is a stable form of n or treat with agrotain. Are you cultivating for weed control?

 

[4710driver]

We do thousands of acres a year of topdressing urea into standing corn. All of or urea is impregnated with Agratain or similar product. Proper care must be taken to slow down the spinners so you do not pulverize the urea and burn the plants, and do pan tests to make sure of the spread pattern.