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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was just looking through the Case IH web site.

Here is what I came up with.

All of us Deere fans have been hearing about the few or lack of changes to the new 70 Series combines. IMHO these changes are running tests for new equipment (electrical, cab controls and such. Which Deere will implement as they see fit. Field trial if you will.

If Deere were to take all of the changes or completely change the whole line up, you would then have that combine that was called the new 8010 from Case. (First ones to come out). I have heard of the stories of repair nightmares and lack of harvesting without breaking down. Sure it runs great but they didn't run for very long!

So case went to the New Holland drawing board again and made the necessary changes.

Now if Deere would do such a thing and have all sorts of problems happen then there would be all sorts of commotion. "Why did they do that?" Or "That green pile of c#@*!!" Then the color war would be off to a great start.

So. Think about this. How many changes to the guts of an axial flow machine has there been over the years?
A new Cab?
More HP?
Different rotor?

It sound to me (from my own opinion) that there really haven't been that many changes to an axial flow machine with the exception of the new 70/8010 that Deere has done to the STS series. You see where I am coming from?

This makes me wonder why the other colors get mad at the small changes Deere does to their machines from year to year with no MAJOR tooling changes. Then they bash us for not having a so called class VIII machine.
Maybe I am missing something?
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x293/brianwise/100_3822.jpg
 

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This is a very interesting way of looking at the situation. And to be honest with you, that makes the most sense. Some things work and some things don't, everyone knows that. I wouldn't know first hand, but the early 8010 models had alot of trouble from what I have heard on many many occasions. I do know that when they first came out my grandpa was hauling beans to the elevator and saw two 2388s in rice running and the new 8010 being worked on on many occasions over a week and a half period. (This is not a knock on CASE IH, just an example)

So why would JD or any other company risk it when you already have a product that the customer wants. That can be applied to any business. If something isn't working and a change is needed then go for it, but how many businesses have lost everthing after making a substantial change just becase they wanted to? I don't have an exact figure but I can almost guarantee its not as many as the ones that only tweak things to improve their current product.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Alex,
This post was not intended to start a war. I hope it will not come to that. I just thought I would put the shoe on the other foot. I hope it will bring up some good conversation....Not a color war!!!!!!!!
 

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Quote:I was just looking through the Case IH web site.

Here is what I came up with.

All of us Deere fans have been hearing about the few or lack of changes to the new 70 Series combines. IMHO these changes are running tests for new equipment (electrical, cab controls and such. Which Deere will implement as they see fit. Field trial if you will.

If Deere were to take all of the changes or completely change the whole line up, you would then have that combine that was called the new 8010 from Case. (First ones to come out). I have heard of the stories of repair nightmares and lack of harvesting without breaking down. Sure it runs great but they didn't run for very long!

So case went to the New Holland drawing board again and made the necessary changes.

Now if Deere would do such a thing and have all sorts of problems happen then there would be all sorts of commotion. "Why did they do that?" Or "That green pile of c#@*!!" Then the color war would be off to a great start.

So. Think about this. How many changes to the guts of an axial flow machine has there been over the years?
A new Cab?
More HP?
Different rotor?

It sound to me (from my own opinion) that there really haven't been that many changes to an axial flow machine with the exception of the new 70/8010 that Deere has done to the STS series. You see where I am coming from?

This makes me wonder why the other colors get mad at the small changes Deere does to their machines from year to year with no MAJOR tooling changes. Then they bash us for not having a so called class VIII machine.
Maybe I am missing something?
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x293/brianwise/100_3822.jpg


Everybody read this a couple times and it not just AXIAL Flow it's all combines, This is so true
 

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Quote:In 1977 if a 1480 had been green their would be no other combine made today.

There will always be different combines, i hope so.
 

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Quote:
Quote:In 1977 if a 1480 had been green their would be no other combine made today.

There will always be different combines, i hope so.


Not as long as combine purchases are made soley on price rather than performance values and quality.

You know, as long as there is a green dealership in every other town, their product quality is going to continue to be managed simply by cost reduction (for the stock holders) and allowed to slide because they know that support is often "just around the corner." Heck, their dealers are even managing by that very same philosophy by limiting the number of available / quality technicians (because they say that "the number of farms are reducing," but the acreage isn't significantly) and you keep paying for deteriorating products and support. I have heard recently that the new 47 - 49 series sprayers are some of the best products the green guys have going. Why, they are built to commercial standards...more durable for more work! If the rest of their products were built to the same standards as these new sprayers, I might consider Deere products once again. Heck, they have yet to even get their precision farming system to work consistently since they introduced it nearly 15 years ago! Why can Ag Leader do it and the green guys can't? Why can a "shortliner" get it right and a big corp. not? The green side has all those resources, what could they all possibly be doing? Obviously keeping you all hooked on "green paint" waiting for that next glorious cure-all of an update and then another and another and another and another... and that balloon payment turns into a BLIMP because you keep rolling waiting on the next new one, and the next one, and the next one and on and on and freak'n on. Unbelievable! The gift that keeps on giving [taking]. That's why I quit buying Deere. They quit listening!!! How many out there can actually pay off their balloon payments to Deere if wanting / needing to retire?



That's what I thought.
 

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9632,
have you forgotten what happened when Deere first came out with the STS? I wrote a four page harvest report the following year and posted it on Marv's site. Case made a much bigger step from their 2388 to the 8010. Since simultaneous enginnering is virtually unknown these days the problems were bigger, too. Unfortunately this happens in other industries, too. Look at the Ford powerstroke as an example. But the brand loyalty is enormous.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ralf,
When Deere first came out with the STS it was a new revolution in rotary threshing technology. After the first season, them machines were worn out, why? Lots of bushels and acres ran through them in a short time. Deere knew they were wearing out prematurely and have since corrected those high wear areas. But wait, IH did the same when their rotary combines came out. Sounds to me the same product development just different color. No manufacturer can build a combine that will not wear out in some part of this world within a two year period. It just doesn't happen. They can't foresee all of the crops and conditions to test a new one out and have ample time to make the changes and test them before the release date. Maybe that is what we are seeing with the BI-ROTOR before it may come out. Who knows.
I too think big green should retool for a bigger machine. It like putting 2tons in a 1ton truck, pretty soon you need to get a bigger truck.
It is funny to see the madness of those who have no brand loyality slam those who do.
 

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I wouldn't go so far as to say "a new revolution in threshing technology." There's nothing revolutionary about STS threshing! If it hadn't been for patents running out on the old White / Massey rotor designs when they did, there wouldn't have been an STS yet.

As far as wear goes, I've run over two million bu. through my 585R Lexion and it isn't showing any signs of wear yet, where before, my 485 did.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Muddy,
Isn't marketing great. Deere used the idea, built it, and ran with it gaining lots of customers from the red side.
I will agree with your previous post about machines being built to Commercial standards. Lexion does a great job of this. Over built to perform the tasks at hand. That is why you have virtually no wear. Now if every manufacturer would do this there would be better quality and better customer satisfaction. But that would not jive with selling parts and service, which is where dealerships make their money. So to overbuild a machine would essentially "shoot yourself in the foot."
 

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More customers should vote their displeasure by purchasing better brands rather than Just "sucking it up" because they got a good deal, the dealer is near by, or the most unbelievable one I've heard "I don't want to upset my dealer," WOW!

No matter how good your deal was or how close the dealer is: parts, service, downtime = lost time all comes at a price. I've never understood the meaning behind sayings like "I can afford a few breakdowns for what the alternative costs." I doubt the effectiveness and worth of anyone who says that. It's just bad business!
 

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Amen Muddy, price should not be your determining factor. Price usually means that the machine has been built to reflect a lower price or that the dealer may be in trouble and is cutting some interest payments and usually that means that the parts and service will reflect the same problem, low inventory of parts and not enough money to pay service techs. It is a vicious circle but one I see regularly. A dealer that makes money when he sells a machine of any kind will be able to stock parts and have the better service techs. The machine sale starts the circle, no units in the field no parts will be sold and no service needs to be done, On the other hand poor parts and service kill the sales department's sales.
 

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Quote:More customers should vote their displeasure by purchasing better brands rather than Just "sucking it up" because they got a good deal, the dealer is near by, or the most unbelievable one I've heard "I don't want to upset my dealer," WOW!

No matter how good your deal was or how close the dealer is: parts, service, downtime = lost time all comes at a price. I've never understood the meaning behind sayings like "I can afford a few breakdowns for what the alternative costs." I doubt the effectiveness and worth of anyone who says that. It's just bad business!


What is a better brand, that is up to that customer, not you. Some will want service because they do not want to service it. Some will want different parts that fit there make, some will want to go to the same dealer for everything they have, so they do not have to drive many miles for one little part. Everything breaks down, to get it going will take a dealer and the manufacture to do the job. Lost time is little compared to two times the cost of the machine.
 

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Having owned a 9750 STS and many friends with 9760 STS's, I would say the 485 wear is roughly the same to better than the 9760 STS.
 

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Quote:Having owned a 9750 STS and many friends with 9760 STS's, I would say the 485 wear is roughly the same to better than the 9760 STS.

The 50 and 60 is better, these are the combines that i work on. We have many that are 6000 hours. Have not seen any bad things
 

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Quote:
Quote:Having owned a 9750 STS and many friends with 9760 STS's, I would say the 485 wear is roughly the same to better than the 9760 STS.

The 50 and 60 is better, these are the combines that i work on. We have many that are 6000 hours. Have not seen any bad things


I went through an elevator boot and two boot doors over the two seasons I had my 50 series and know similar issues with nearby 60 series, not to mention the feeder house reverser gear boxes...one a season (3-4 belt failures = a gear box) on the 50 series with a 12 row corn head and even though it is bigger on the 60 series, it is still a major problem with 12 row corn heads. I have no feeder house reverser gear box to worry about anymore with Lexion and only went through one elevator boot on the 485 and the sump area ont he unloader wore a hole that we patched fast and no augers. The elevator boot on the 585R weighs nearly 15 pounds with a HD liner, not wearing it any time soon. clean grain cross auger, vertical unloading auger are both 1/8" thick.
 
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