What are some of your best estimates at what it costs to clear land? I have been quoted from $140 - $160/hour for cat work and $140 - 180/hour for hoe work. One a per acre basis one experienced contactor told me it costs about $350/acre to get it custom done. I am in in the black soil zone in east central Saskatchewan and am clearing medium/large sized poplar on land I have recently purchased. I am just finishing one job and am concerned about the amount of time it has taken to clear 30 acres and am looking for some more information before I sit down with the contactor to discuss the bill.
JD74
Mate I could speak about clearing land for eternity, but I think any where you are on planet earth the more you can get done with the red steer (fire, burning) the better off you are. In my area it's $100/ ha for discing and $160/ha for power harrow, that's after you have pushed and burnt as much as you can, painful task! What it cost has to be relevant to what cleared farming ground is worth and what you paid for it.
we charge $185 an hour for a 270 hoe and the same for a D6R but thats oilfield rates. As far as acres per hour it depends alot on the operator. Some of the old timers that ive worked with really know how to knock down trees without making a big mess. Alot of farmers around here have found it more cost effective to buy their own dozer and trackhoe for clearing land.
Hello JD74
Any market in your area for that poplar? Boy, I hate to see good bush knocked down & burnt.
I used to buy standing poplar bush from farmers to log. I paid $10/cord x 5 to 10 cords/acre = $50 to $100/acre for the land owner to offset the cost of developing the land at a later date. This takes a bit of planning though. It'll take about 10 years for the stumps to rot before you can develop that land. Yes, in 10 years you will get a lot of regrowth, but you will spend a lot less money knocking down & piling those 10 year old poplar suckers than you would a mature stand of trees.
Any market in your area for that poplar? Boy, I hate to see good bush knocked down & burnt.
I used to buy standing poplar bush from farmers to log. I paid $10/cord x 5 to 10 cords/acre = $50 to $100/acre for the land owner to offset the cost of developing the land at a later date. This takes a bit of planning though. It'll take about 10 years for the stumps to rot before you can develop that land. Yes, in 10 years you will get a lot of regrowth, but you will spend a lot less money knocking down & piling those 10 year old poplar suckers than you would a mature stand of trees.$500/ac was the price about 5 years ago in northern Ontario (Temiskaming clay belt). No idea now. Is there any value in the wood as firewood, lumber, pulp & paper? That saves a lot of trouble, just stumps left then. Could rent a stump grinder, or punch a bunch of holes in the stumps, urea and manure will take a few years before you can start working it.
For small thorn trees, dad would use a cable and chain to wrap around their bottom (3-4" diameter stuff), and we'd rip them out. 85 PTO HP did the trick, we'd pile them up and burn them - just make sure you expand your head- or sidelands in the next year or two.
Bruce
For small thorn trees, dad would use a cable and chain to wrap around their bottom (3-4" diameter stuff), and we'd rip them out. 85 PTO HP did the trick, we'd pile them up and burn them - just make sure you expand your head- or sidelands in the next year or two.
Bruce
We have done lots for last 20 years and annually......today in oilfield country we hire D7 or D8's for $200 to $220 per hour, the backhoe similar to $180.....we row up the poplar and brush/maples/caragana and let sit for 2 years to dry down, then burn them to minimize picking after....good hot blaze....then consolidate piles with 200hp mfwd front end loaders and try a reburn and or burial w a cat or hoe.....we should have bought our own equipment, but nobody here sittin around watching TV, so something else wouldn't get done proper....ie checking grain bins, grain haulin, scraper work or "landscaping", fall application of chem, etc......every mornin the cats are workin 8am until 6pm.....I'm sure post harvest we wouldn't operate them half the time.....don't be afraid to hire and get the more or most experienced cat skinner at the business....they will minimize dirt in ur tree piles and push a lot more bush per hour so in end cheaper especially if u value to get more acres into production sooner......
In the process of doing several hundred acres currently.
Poplar off even a heavy stand will not generate enough dollars to cover the extra cost of paying someone to deal with the stumps. You're better off to just walk the trees down, easiest way to get the stump out, and pile and burn everything. If you have your own equipment, then you can go ahead with logging it and dealing with the aftermath yourself. In this area poplar is roughly around 7-9 tonne for pulp at Alpac, and spruce was the same, though I understand recently it has went up somewhat. Because Millar wont pay worth while for spruce, I bought a 44 inch head rig sawmill and am going to use the spruce myself.
A minimum D8 or a 300 series hoe are needed to effectively deal with stumps. If you stump with a hoe, you reduce the cat work considerably and are also able to utilize a much smaller cat even a D6 to do the blade work. If you have any amount to do, buy yourself a hoe and resell it if you want when you're done. Way cheaper than hiring someone IMO. But as I said you need a big one to do an effective job. A 200 series isnt heavy enough nor does it have the power to rip out a large stump in one swipe. A huge advantage to using a hoe, is you end up with a clean job with very little dirt in the piles. A root rake is good on a hoe, but not necessary, if you've got a good size digging bucket, put on a set of what they call "shark teeth". You will also need a machine with a hydraulic thumb as well.
To hire it out, you're looking at over $400/acre IMO to where you can go in with a disc. And at those numbers, if you have any amounts to do, buy your own machines. A decent older 300 hoe can be had for under $30,000, as there is a limited market for them, due to their weight and cost of transporting them. Most contractors avoid them for that reason alone. I picked up a '95 Komatsu 300LC-5 for 20 grand a few years ago, complete with thumb and quick tach. 30 grand again will buy you a good older cat too.
Poplar off even a heavy stand will not generate enough dollars to cover the extra cost of paying someone to deal with the stumps. You're better off to just walk the trees down, easiest way to get the stump out, and pile and burn everything. If you have your own equipment, then you can go ahead with logging it and dealing with the aftermath yourself. In this area poplar is roughly around 7-9 tonne for pulp at Alpac, and spruce was the same, though I understand recently it has went up somewhat. Because Millar wont pay worth while for spruce, I bought a 44 inch head rig sawmill and am going to use the spruce myself.
A minimum D8 or a 300 series hoe are needed to effectively deal with stumps. If you stump with a hoe, you reduce the cat work considerably and are also able to utilize a much smaller cat even a D6 to do the blade work. If you have any amount to do, buy yourself a hoe and resell it if you want when you're done. Way cheaper than hiring someone IMO. But as I said you need a big one to do an effective job. A 200 series isnt heavy enough nor does it have the power to rip out a large stump in one swipe. A huge advantage to using a hoe, is you end up with a clean job with very little dirt in the piles. A root rake is good on a hoe, but not necessary, if you've got a good size digging bucket, put on a set of what they call "shark teeth". You will also need a machine with a hydraulic thumb as well.
To hire it out, you're looking at over $400/acre IMO to where you can go in with a disc. And at those numbers, if you have any amounts to do, buy your own machines. A decent older 300 hoe can be had for under $30,000, as there is a limited market for them, due to their weight and cost of transporting them. Most contractors avoid them for that reason alone. I picked up a '95 Komatsu 300LC-5 for 20 grand a few years ago, complete with thumb and quick tach. 30 grand again will buy you a good older cat too.
I always wondered if i had a large area to clear would it justify buying a mulcher or renting one? how do they cope with big trees and stumps? If your lands worth now $1000-$2000 an acre then paying $500 or even $1000 an acre is cheap if ya think about it also you have less overlap and miss and straiter fields once the slough and bush is gone. My biggest problem is draining sloughs and so im still waiting for drainage permits here in mb
In all my past experience with land clearing we only had a cat tramp down the bush and then windrow it. You would then burn the windrows the following summer, then pile up the left overs and let them dry one more year, burn them, then bury the remainder.This is the first time I had a contactor use a hoe and a cat at the same time. I think they thought it would go quicker but it actually took longer. The hoe is fine for burying stones and digging, I just dont see it speeding things up in the size of forest I am doing.
We have officially just finished our land clearinjg project this year it was a 120 acres roughly half was covered by brush rest was hayland and native grass. If we were to do it again we would definetly buy a cat and brush ourselves. We windrowed the trees in winter, burnt the next fall at first snowfall. We then pushed small piles of leftover unburnt trees burnt again and hauled last bit away this year. Spent hours discing and picking roots and rocks. We never used a hoe (but could have). I don't remember exact cost for the cat work, it was done by retired farmer and the cat is his toy, was just over $20,000 if I remember right. It has grown some huge crops since has already paid for itself in 4 years.(however was way more work then I thought it would be) anyways that was our expierence
My grandpa told me the cheapest land you buy is the costliest to own. Example you buy a half section of bush 50 thousand and put that much into it. I agree to buy your own dozer, **** even god forbid a Komatsu lol. Neil Burg I think the fellows charge for doing the brushing sounds reasonable because if its who I think it is he would do a good job. A d7 g?
I found my wheel loader was one of my most effective tools and I can use it for a lot of other things. You can fit them with a brush grapple/ root rake. I got a hoe to come in and rip stumps then we just clean it up on our own time.
When I was in Brazil they were using big ship chains tied between two big dozers and just letting it roll through the bush. Amazing the destruction them things did.
When I was in Brazil they were using big ship chains tied between two big dozers and just letting it roll through the bush. Amazing the destruction them things did.
Using a mulcher to clear land is like using a push mower to cut a 10 acre meadow. Nothing beats a d8 for walking and piling. I would like to try a ship chain on 60 foot poplars. Would need something heavy to hold the chain down so it dont ride up. I have a d8 cat rail and uke tires for a float. Brushed some rocky bush pasture and then run this rig over it the next summer. It was amazing what it did so I can only imagine what a ship chain would do.
I think there is a bit of misunderstanding regarding when to use a track hoe for clearing land. Not sure if a few of you are relating to my earlier comments, but I thought I'd just clarify exactly what I was saying. What I am referring to, are operations where when done, you are going in with a disc and not waiting for material to rot down.
If you are simply looking to walk and pile, nothing is faster than a cat with dozer. Depending on what time of year and ground conditions and also amount and size of brush or trees, how clean of job is done, that is how much or little dirt is in the windrows is variable. But no question, a cat can walk it down and pile it way faster and cheaper than a hoe of any size can.
However, if the land has been logged, the "handle" has now been removed from the stump, and you now have a large stump sticking 6 inches out of the ground and as any experienced cat skinner knows, even a D8 will either slip over or have grief when encountering a larger stump or two or three at the same time, with the blade, like roughly 20 inches in diameter or larger. Even if done with no frost and a root rake, since there is no way of rolling the stump out as is done with the tree still attached, you end up with a very dirty root ball because the stump is more pushed out, rather than rolled. This is where a large hoe kicks ass. For stumping, they can't be beat for speed of popping stumps out and for the cleanliness of the root ball and piles. In regular bush, after logging, there is virtually nothing large still standing and most under brush is knocked down. After you have removed the stumps with the hoe, you still need to make at least one pass with the dozer, however this can be done now with just a D6 with blade angled walking right along.
A lot of guys try to stump with smaller series hoes, and they are slow and things don't work good at all. There isn't the weight nor the power to in just seconds, with a quick roll of the bucket and drop the thumb, a quick shake as you swing, then throw the stump towards the pile. Like anything, experience counts for how good and quick of job is done. As for using a hoe to actually clear bush, they work good for like doing old fencelines or small areas, but over all, when dealing with standing trees, they are slow compared to a cat, though they do a clean job with next to no dirt in the piles. One place I do use my hoe over the cat for standing brush is doing large clump willows. Usually do them in summer when there is no frost, grab tree and root ball as one and lift. This where a large hoe only works, as now you have dirt moving in a 30 foot circle in front of you as the trailing roots all pull clear. Shake it a few times and throw it in the pile. That takes some serious hydraulic power and weight to pull stuff like that off. What else is good about it, is now there is hardly any roots left in the ground either
I remember reading an article several years ago, from the late Sixties or early Seventies in The Farm Quarterly magazine, ( I have a big box of them my father saved), about using the chain method of clearing land. It wasn't that big of trees they were knocking down, and a couple of other things I remember was the two big swivels at the back of each cat the chain connected to, and every so often there was huge steel balls for weight. The lead cat would run ahead of the trailing one so most of the chain was at about a 45 degree angle. That had something to do with how good it worked. I think it was in Texas or maybe Mexico. The jest of the article was that it was fast way of reducing brush. I might just have to find that box of mags and do a little reading up on that idea and refresh the old memory
If you are simply looking to walk and pile, nothing is faster than a cat with dozer. Depending on what time of year and ground conditions and also amount and size of brush or trees, how clean of job is done, that is how much or little dirt is in the windrows is variable. But no question, a cat can walk it down and pile it way faster and cheaper than a hoe of any size can.
However, if the land has been logged, the "handle" has now been removed from the stump, and you now have a large stump sticking 6 inches out of the ground and as any experienced cat skinner knows, even a D8 will either slip over or have grief when encountering a larger stump or two or three at the same time, with the blade, like roughly 20 inches in diameter or larger. Even if done with no frost and a root rake, since there is no way of rolling the stump out as is done with the tree still attached, you end up with a very dirty root ball because the stump is more pushed out, rather than rolled. This is where a large hoe kicks ass. For stumping, they can't be beat for speed of popping stumps out and for the cleanliness of the root ball and piles. In regular bush, after logging, there is virtually nothing large still standing and most under brush is knocked down. After you have removed the stumps with the hoe, you still need to make at least one pass with the dozer, however this can be done now with just a D6 with blade angled walking right along.
A lot of guys try to stump with smaller series hoes, and they are slow and things don't work good at all. There isn't the weight nor the power to in just seconds, with a quick roll of the bucket and drop the thumb, a quick shake as you swing, then throw the stump towards the pile. Like anything, experience counts for how good and quick of job is done. As for using a hoe to actually clear bush, they work good for like doing old fencelines or small areas, but over all, when dealing with standing trees, they are slow compared to a cat, though they do a clean job with next to no dirt in the piles. One place I do use my hoe over the cat for standing brush is doing large clump willows. Usually do them in summer when there is no frost, grab tree and root ball as one and lift. This where a large hoe only works, as now you have dirt moving in a 30 foot circle in front of you as the trailing roots all pull clear. Shake it a few times and throw it in the pile. That takes some serious hydraulic power and weight to pull stuff like that off. What else is good about it, is now there is hardly any roots left in the ground either
I remember reading an article several years ago, from the late Sixties or early Seventies in The Farm Quarterly magazine, ( I have a big box of them my father saved), about using the chain method of clearing land. It wasn't that big of trees they were knocking down, and a couple of other things I remember was the two big swivels at the back of each cat the chain connected to, and every so often there was huge steel balls for weight. The lead cat would run ahead of the trailing one so most of the chain was at about a 45 degree angle. That had something to do with how good it worked. I think it was in Texas or maybe Mexico. The jest of the article was that it was fast way of reducing brush. I might just have to find that box of mags and do a little reading up on that idea and refresh the old memory
Track hoes are also very good for isolated, brushy trees. Lower limbs stick out far enough to get into the radiator or glass of the Cat before the blade even gets to the trunk.
I agree with Wiscjim about the heavy loader. Great for isolated trees or small patches, or for piling the trees after knocking them out with a track hoe. Mine is 200 hp, 37,000#. Rubber tires and I can drive it 15 miles faster than I can put a truck on a low boy and haul it. Plus it will lift over 20,000 lbs so its handy lots of places around the farm.
I agree with Wiscjim about the heavy loader. Great for isolated trees or small patches, or for piling the trees after knocking them out with a track hoe. Mine is 200 hp, 37,000#. Rubber tires and I can drive it 15 miles faster than I can put a truck on a low boy and haul it. Plus it will lift over 20,000 lbs so its handy lots of places around the farm.
The country is 2/3 of the way through of auctioning off 136000 acres of bush land so there lots going on currently. We have lots of snow so this winter is pretty much spoiled but its been gong alright. SRD/Foresty says up to $350/ac but I really don't know.
Basically, in the winter on the frost, you take the trees down with a cutter on a D8N, or D8T ( some D7G's around )etc. Then you pile them in rows maybe 200 yards apart. About a week single shift to cut a quarter down, about twice as long to pile.
That following summer( if your in a hurry )you burn, scrape up leftovers an burn again etc. Next plow it up( cat or 4wd ), then heavy disc and root pick. Deep till between rootpickings, rootpick up to 3 times, burning roots in between.
One local farmer was rotovating with a jd 9530T ( i think ) and a 3 point hitch setup. Rotovater was barely as wide as the tractor, 6 inches deep, and about 1 or 2 mph. I don't know how well it will work in the long run; he won't be working anything deeper than that for the next 10 years though.
Basically, in the winter on the frost, you take the trees down with a cutter on a D8N, or D8T ( some D7G's around )etc. Then you pile them in rows maybe 200 yards apart. About a week single shift to cut a quarter down, about twice as long to pile.
That following summer( if your in a hurry )you burn, scrape up leftovers an burn again etc. Next plow it up( cat or 4wd ), then heavy disc and root pick. Deep till between rootpickings, rootpick up to 3 times, burning roots in between.
One local farmer was rotovating with a jd 9530T ( i think ) and a 3 point hitch setup. Rotovater was barely as wide as the tractor, 6 inches deep, and about 1 or 2 mph. I don't know how well it will work in the long run; he won't be working anything deeper than that for the next 10 years though.
I clear a decent amount of south Texas land every year. I'm not old enough to remember chaining. From what I can figure it would work well on mesquite only as the roots will rip out of the ground some, or it will break off at the ground. In the old days mesquite would have been the main problem. Now we have mostly weesatch, think it's too flexible for a chain to work, would just lay down still connected to all the roots in the ground. After chaining you would stack with a d7 or bigger with a root rake, then burn, root plow, rake again, burn.
Now we knock everything down with d5-d6R size machines (but Deere instead of Cat), stack in piles and burn, guess we are lucky we don't have to wait, I can make the mesquite/weesatch/hackberries/scrub brush burn the same day I knock it down. Better if you wait a week or so. Then root plow, rake, burn, heavy disc, field disc, and it's ready to farm.
Now we knock everything down with d5-d6R size machines (but Deere instead of Cat), stack in piles and burn, guess we are lucky we don't have to wait, I can make the mesquite/weesatch/hackberries/scrub brush burn the same day I knock it down. Better if you wait a week or so. Then root plow, rake, burn, heavy disc, field disc, and it's ready to farm.
land clearing with mulcher
has anyone on here ever used a iron wolf or a machine like it to go over land once it has been cut and pilled iam wondering how it would work. because I have about 450 acres of land cut and piled that I either have to plow and disc the old way or I was wondering if a mulcher that would go 6 to 8 inch in the ground would work good
has anyone on here ever used a iron wolf or a machine like it to go over land once it has been cut and pilled iam wondering how it would work. because I have about 450 acres of land cut and piled that I either have to plow and disc the old way or I was wondering if a mulcher that would go 6 to 8 inch in the ground would work good
the more roots and rocks a person picks/pulls the more you looks for easier solutions. IF you get the right operator at the right price there is no question that the the mulcher in the ground idea does speed thing up. However, the maintenance on these as well as time required usually is bit of a sticking point. There really is no easy way to do this; it just a comparison of $'s/time required to get it right - I have mulched fencelines that seem to be 5 years to get all the roots/rocks back to point where you can normally seed and yet have cat cleared fencelines that not much sooner. Hoe does a nice job, but seems to be more expensive.
Hey friesen farms yep I've worked beside iron wolfs while I was bushing in my d9 by peace river, iron wolf will do 8 to 6 inches in dry ground, 1ac per hour at 550 bucks per hour, I do custom breaking Plowing with 9520 JD with skidder tires with four bottom Dika Breaking Plow at 100 bucks acre, check out kijji I have ad on there
This all sounds like great fun, you guys gotta post some photos of this stuff.
I would LOVE to sit in a 20 digger and clear trees and stuff all day, or some massive dozer.
Anyway, I have heard of them using ship anchor chains to clear land before and I have seen them doing it in Brazil too. I don't know what an average chain weighs but it must be many tonnes, made a mockery of the job with a big bulldozer each end, even fairly hefty trees would be uprooted with minimal fuss.
Anyway, I have seen land cleared and made into near 100% useful land in this country, but it is obviously not on the same scale as you guys. However, they did a good job, but it was SLOW.
This sort of machine:
I would LOVE to sit in a 20 digger and clear trees and stuff all day, or some massive dozer.
Anyway, I have heard of them using ship anchor chains to clear land before and I have seen them doing it in Brazil too. I don't know what an average chain weighs but it must be many tonnes, made a mockery of the job with a big bulldozer each end, even fairly hefty trees would be uprooted with minimal fuss.
Anyway, I have seen land cleared and made into near 100% useful land in this country, but it is obviously not on the same scale as you guys. However, they did a good job, but it was SLOW.
This sort of machine:
Forestry Mulching Pros offers land clearing, underbrush removal, forestry mulching, site prep, commercial clearing, homesite clearing, & right of way clearing in Alabama, Deleware, Missouri, Ohio, Wisconsin, North Carolina, Mississippi, Oregon, Oklahoma, Texas, Colorado, Tennessee, California, New Jersey, Iowa, and Louisiana.
Ten years ago we brushed with a cat and the guy didn’t do a very good job so we hired a guy with a 600 hp mulcher. It was costly but the hour but we picked what was left of any rocks because pulverized them and stumps roots and any debris was gone. We seeded into it the next spring ,no discing - changing bearings blades or repairing punctured tires. He went eight inches deep was eight feet wide. Would do it again for the cost of good land per acre at 4800-5000 to use next year I think it was worth it.
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