my advice would have to be go with a 700 bushel cart. You can dump twice in it, two carts fill a truck, easier to pull, less compaction, better in mud, lower profile, simple (1 auger design), and cheaper.

I can see the side of the fence that you want all the in field capacity that you can have, and that NEEDS to be a consideration, but 250 bushels is debatebly insignificant.

Just my .02, the one thing i can GAURANTEE is that you are going to really like having a cart in the field whatever capacity you choose.

brad

 

I'm curious about this too. As we are looking at buying a grain cart since we have a 8010.

Here is my thinking tell me if I'm wrong.........

750-850 bu capacity......single auger cart

We haul 1,100-1,200 bu on trucks out of the field. Thought is that combine holds 330bu realistically. 2 combine dumps on cart. 2 cart dumps fill a truck. Also if trucks don't get back in time 1 cart + 1 combine tank = truck full. Single corner auger means less moving parts, better visibility, more reach.......Plus the benefits he listed above less compaction, lighter, easier to pull etc......

Also would any of our 3 tractors have a problem pulling the cart specified above?

Case 1370 2wd 180hp
CaseIH 7230 MFD 230hp
CaseIH 7240 MFD 285hp

 

I ran a 750 bushel cart with a 2wd 4555 (150hp)and had no problem from Oklahoma to Saskatchewan. IF its muddy you'll get stuck. No problem under good conditions. Then went to 1100 bushel cart, Brent, with 8300,8310,8320,and now 8330. All MFWD. Power isn't a problem and if its real muddy, you'll get stuck, Traction is the only problem and the cart can control you when it is full so I recommend FWA with this size or 4WD.

A "good operator" can run a "big cart" with "anything".

 

the bigger the better, i would let your budget be your guide. we are usually short on trucks due to lines from time to time and ive found that if you can hold more infield till your trucks get back the better you are, i bought a new crustbuster 850 this year and wish now i would hve gotten the 1050 model, oh well live and learn

 

Quote:We haul 1,100-1,200 bu on trucks out of the field. Thought is that combine holds 330bu realistically. 2 combine dumps on cart. 2 cart dumps fill a truck. Also if trucks don't get back in time 1 cart + 1 combine tank = truck full. Single corner auger means less moving parts, better visibility, more reach.......Plus the benefits he listed above less compaction, lighter, easier to pull etc......



We do pretty much the same thing. We have a 876 Brent which holds 800-900 bushels just depending on who loads it. That full cart plus a combine hopper full is a truck load. We pull it with a 225 horse mfwd tractor.

One thing I hate about the Brent and similar carts (J&M mainly) is that they are so tall. I've ran a Kinze on wheat harvest and they are so much easier to load into because of the lower hight and longer length. Brents and J&M's are just big tall square boxes on wheels.

 

Our farm has run a cart for 5 years now, I just bought a Brent 1594 (1500bus). Trying to sell our Unverferth 9200 (1000bus). We used to run 1 9860, 3 9600, & 1 9610. Our first year we pulled the 9200 cart with a 4450(140hp) it pulled it across the field fine. Slow and limited visibility kinda sucked but we got by. The fastest I could ever pull it was like 10-12mph which was probably a good thing i couldn't go faster. With 5 machines the cart usually had about 1030bus on it going back to the truck. Our second year we got a STX 375 with PTO, now that is a cart tractor, I was able to keep up the the combines barely but only because of increased travel speed. Now for next year I have a JD 9330 and Brent 1594 to keep up to 4 9870s, the purchase of the cart was based on the fact that 4 hoppers equals 1200bus so I will always have a bit of extra room so the combines don't have to worry about spilling. What I am trying to say is put the biggest tractor you have on the biggest grain cart you can afford. If you have a small tractor and a big cart your tractor takes a beating but switch those two and your cart takes a beating and your tractor idles around the field and your tractor is worth a whole lot more than a grain cart. For 2 combines 1000bus cart, to go from a corner auger 800 to 1000 is not a huge jump in price. As for the original question, if you buy a 1000bus then you can dump two combines twice, almost. But it would work.

 

We like to be able to fill the truck with one cart load. we haul 1000 bu. and have a 1194 brent don't have to stack the cart clear full which is nice. I agree with riceman that the 2auger carts are alot easier to load since they are longer and not so darn tall. we are pulling the cart with a mx275. the most time consuming part of running the cart is going to the truck with a load, so the less trips the better. we don't have a scale on cart but use the combine monitor to load the cart and never have any problems with weight.

 

since we use wagons at the moment we figured get a cart that could fill just a little above legal weight per axle (36,000 or 18,000 per axle).

We pull a 572 Brent graincart, but realistically with the larger extensions we had made, we can fit 600 or so on DRY crops in there without a problem so we can load the 630bu wagon in one load. If its 18% we have a tougher time filling in load....

 

Quote:the bigger the better, i would let your budget be your guide. we are usually short on trucks due to lines from time to time and ive found that if you can hold more infield till your trucks get back the better you are, i bought a new crustbuster 850 this year and wish now i would hve gotten the 1050 model, oh well live and learn

1,050 or bigger sounds a little big to me for one combine.......

 

What ever happened to the rule of thumb? 2.5 times combine hopper capacity. Unloading on the go will probably harvest 1/4 of a hopper, so at 2.5 times hopper capacity you can get two full dumps in on the go.

 

I have one 2388 with an 8 row. Had a J&M 875 and loved it. Thought that a guy would never need anything bigger. Came across a deal too good to pass up for a J&M 1075 a couple years ago. I have never regreted going bigger. You don't always have to use the extra space but if you need it you have it. I am not saying that you need a 1000 bushel cart, but when have you gotten the next size bigger or better and ever regretted it. I also agree that a good operator can run any cart with anything.

 

Quote:I have one 2388 with an 8 row. Had a J&M 875 and loved it. Thought that a guy would never need anything bigger. Came across a deal too good to pass up for a J&M 1075 a couple years ago. I have never regreted going bigger. You don't always have to use the extra space but if you need it you have it. I am not saying that you need a 1000 bushel cart, but when have you gotten the next size bigger or better and ever regretted it. I also agree that a good operator can run any cart with anything.

How much heavier, or harder to pull is the 1075 over the 875? What do you pull it with.....Thanks

 

Pulled the 875 with a 2 wheel drive 7120 and no problem at all. Didn't even run front end weights. Traded the 7120 up to a 255 the same year as I traded the cart. So now i put the 255 or 325 STX on the cart depending on what other jobs need to be done. I wouldn't say the bigger cart pulls that much harder under normal conditions or when only loaded half full. But when it is clear full or the ground is a little soft, you know it's there. The 255 is more than enough tractor for the way I use the cart. If it is too soft, the cart sits. I run 73 x 43 floaters on the cart so it "rolls" pretty easy. Sorry, but I don't know the actual weight difference between the 875 and the 1075. The big 22 inch auger is sweet!!!

 

Thanks for your responses guys!

We're probably looking at a 850 bus cart with corner unload. We'd perfer that over a 2 auger setup for simplicity of design. Like I mentioned before, we rarely deal with mud, so flotation is not the issue. Price is the biggest issue, we aren't willing to shell out what a 1194 Brent is worth.
We just want something so we can unload on the go and weigh what comes off the field. Just looking to use the combine @ 100 % efficiency.

 

Quote: Just looking to use the combine @ 100 % efficiency.
Exactly. Just as long as you don't spend 10 $ to make 9.

Don

 

Well, it's either run a cart with one combine, or run two at 60-70% efficiency. We run 2 combines now, and I would rather run one with a cart. We only have three guys to run equipment, so one on the truck, the cart and the combine. That's why we're looking at a $15k cart. I just get tired of stopping to dump. All it does is add unneccessary hours on the combine, and fewer acres cut in the day.
So, yes it may cost money to make money, but over the course of a harvest, the day you gain from dumping on the go may mean you can pay for the cart from the 200 ac from the day you lost to the weather, and you still have the cart.
We have one neighbor that runs four combines over 12000 ac, and all I can say, is he could downsize for sure 1 if not 2 combines if he would run a cart. He has trucks chasing combines all over the field, and they usually stop to dump. One day we combined beside him, and he only did 400 ac with the 4 (9660 STS, 9750 STS, 9610 and 9600 on 1/2 section fields) , while we did 140 with one 9600 working on 40 and 80 ac fields.
I feel that you can spend less money on a cart than a second combine, but that's only my personal opinion.

 

Quote:Well, it's either run a cart with one combine, or run two at 60-70% efficiency. We run 2 combines now, and I would rather run one with a cart. We only have three guys to run equipment, so one on the truck, the cart and the combine. That's why we're looking at a $15k cart. I just get tired of stopping to dump. All it does is add unnecessary hours on the combine, and fewer acres cut in the day.
So, yes it may cost money to make money, but over the course of a harvest, the day you gain from dumping on the go may mean you can pay for the cart from the 200 ac from the day you lost to the weather, and you still have the cart.
We have one neighbor that runs four combines over 12000 ac, and all I can say, is he could downsize for sure 1 if not 2 combines if he would run a cart. He has trucks chasing combines all over the field, and they usually stop to dump. One day we combined beside him, and he only did 400 ac with the 4 (9660 STS, 9750 STS, 9610 and 9600 on 1/2 section fields) , while we did 140 with one 9600 working on 40 and 80 ac fields.
I feel that you can spend less money on a cart than a second combine, but that's only my personal opinion.

I like your thinking.....I'm in the same boat as you. We only have 3 people too. We chose to upgrade to a AFX 8010 this year rather than buy another 21/2388. We needed more capacity. Right now we got by with no cart, but are looking to buy one to make the combine more efficient. Just can't buy everything in one year. We have run 2 combines, and you can get alot done. We don't have the people to man a cart and 2 combines. Plus in corn we don't have the trucks to keep up, so 2 would only be used in beans, and wheat. So we decided to upgrade the combine for more capacity, and add a cart. Also we are looking at stopping the combine from running to the trucks when it gets a full bin. Also it's easier to find a truck or cart driver than a combine operator.

 

I guess someone's gonna have to draw me a picture.
I also only want to run one combine but this swing to carts mystifies me.
When you guys say trucks you must mean truck/trailer.
We have 2 trucks, body job tandems, and I can assure you they can chase a combine far faster than any tractor/cart combo and getting operators is easy as they have Allison Automatics. This combination would keep up for the distances and unloading circumstances we have. So I guess I have 2 trucks instead of one truck and one cart... that can't haul on the road or have any other use the other 93% of the year. Got enough junk like that already! I sure there's a place for carts... just not on my place.
Like I said I just don't get it.

Don

 

Ok, sorry to have made our situation a little muddy, but we run 2 combines, a 9600 and a 7721 Titan 2. They run separate of each other 90% of the time. We try to straight cut as much as possible, but we do swath our lentils, and whatever it takes to keep the pull-type going. Usually when we run separate, one semi or straight truck stays with the 9600 with 2 men, and one guy goes with a semi and combines by himself with the 7721.

When we expanded a few years ago, one landlord had the 7721 for sale and I ended up buying it just to use as a filler combine and to help with the acres we picked up. I know it's not the best or most efficient situation, but it kept our costs down while we expanded and helped take off extra acres. The combine was also to good to pass up on. I've run it for 4 years now, and have only put rub bars in it, nothing else, have had zero problems with it.

And, we've also upgraded our SP combine from a JD 9600 to a 470R Cat, so that is why we believe we can go from 2 combines to one with a grain cart.

Our truck situation:
We have 2 tri-axle hopper trailers, an old 3 ton is our only straight truck. The semis are not the best thing to try to run around the field, and the 3 ton is basically shot, so instead of buying a tandem straight truck, we're looking at a cart so we can use our semis for harvest.

Hope that clarifies our situation for you guys.

 

I can see if you were running 3 or 4 combines without a cart then a cart would make up for one combine but eliminating one combine and adding a cart doesn't add up.

- One 14 hour day with a 9600 = 140 acres = 10ac/hour
- Wheat yielding 45bus/acre (very good crop for my area)
- 450bus per hour, 6300bus per day
- Having to unload about 26 times at 240bus per hopper
- 2mins to unload hopper = 52mins unloading all day
- Need to work 52mins longer per day to achieve same acres.

This is all under extremely controlled circumstances and it might never work out this way in the real world. So even if you add on another 5mins per hopper to drive to the front of the field a cart still doesn't replace one combine. Then you can add in the cost of ownership of a second combine and so on and you can justify it several different ways. This is just one way of looking at it and not necessarily the best way.

food for thought as they say

 

Quote:I guess someone's gonna have to draw me a picture.
I also only want to run one combine but this swing to carts mystifies me.
When you guys say trucks you must mean truck/trailer.
We have 2 trucks, body job tandems, and I can assure you they can chase a combine far faster than any tractor/cart combo and getting operators is easy as they have Allison Automatics. This combination would keep up for the distances and unloading circumstances we have. So I guess I have 2 trucks instead of one truck and one cart... that can't haul on the road or have any other use the other 93% of the year. Got enough junk like that already! I sure there's a place for carts... just not on my place.
Like I said I just don't get it.

Don


Ok Don I hope this helps clear it up......




Here is one of our trucks (18 wheelers) as I call it. We have 3 of them. 2 with hoppers. 1 soon to be with a dump trailer, Were selling our 10 wheeler (Tandem) it just isn't practical anymore. Just too small (600bu). We will need the third truck to keep up when we get a cart. The black Pete has a 600hp Cat with a 18spd, the purple Pete has a 500hp Cat with a 13spd, and the Ford LTL has a 400hp Cummins with a 13 spd. I wouldn't dream of putting autos in them. Rob too much power, to slow etc....

Here is the problem I'm trying to avoid. The combine sitting and dumping on the turnrows....

Here is what I'm going to do with the cart......You wouldn't think of doing this with a truck. You probably would get stuck on tear something up. 1,100-1,200 bu is alot of weight. Plus it would pack the ground down so tight you never get anything to grow.

 

Quote:I can see if you were running 3 or 4 combines without a cart then a cart would make up for one combine but eliminating one combine and adding a cart doesn't add up.

- One 14 hour day with a 9600 = 140 acres = 10ac/hour
- Wheat yielding 45bus/acre (very good crop for my area)
- 450bus per hour, 6300bus per day
- Having to unload about 26 times at 240bus per hopper
- 2mins to unload hopper = 52mins unloading all day
- Need to work 52mins longer per day to achieve same acres.

This is all under extremely controlled circumstances and it might never work out this way in the real world. So even if you add on another 5mins per hopper to drive to the front of the field a cart still doesn't replace one combine. Then you can add in the cost of ownership of a second combine and so on and you can justify it several different ways. This is just one way of looking at it and not necessarily the best way.

food for thought as they say




Ok this year we ran our AFX 8010 and no cart. In corn that averaged 190bupa working at a average speed from start to when I started again heres what it took. It took me 5 mins to get a tank full. It took me 3 mins to run to the truck. It took me 3 mins to unload, and start again. Thats 11 min. It took 4 dumps to fill the truck. Thats a truck load every 44 mins. From say 8-6 thats 10hrs or 13 loads with 1 combine and no cart. Or 15,600 bushel. With a cart your truck load time will be cut in half since the combine does not stop. That would be a truck load every 22 mins. In a 10 hour day thats 27 truck loads instead of 13. Or 32,400 bushel. If there was 2 combines running with no cart you would get the same result. Instead of spending another $300,000, I only spent $10-15,000.

Now I realize that this is in a perfect world. That actual results may be less due to the operator stopping to relive himself, eating, slow truck driver etc....You however see the point....

 

Thanks Big A . I'm surprised you could scare up such appropriate pictures that fast. Boy can you ever cut high. You must run more than 1 combine? That of course changes the puzzle.
I think your perception of the new Allison Automatics is dated, if you'd have said cost you be right, but you have the rest of it backwards.
Thanks for the quick reply.

Don

 

Quote:Thanks Big A . I'm surprised you could scare up such appropriate pictures that fast. Boy can you ever cut high. You must run more than 1 combine? That of course changes the puzzle.
I think your perception of the new Allison Automatics is dated, if you'd have said cost you be right, but you have the rest of it backwards.
Thanks for the quick reply.

Don

No we only run 1 combine. We rented a second a couple years in wheat. That is why we needed more capacity. We thought of getting another 21/2388, but decided to upgrade to a AFX 8010. Then get a cart. Well had the pics close by. The cart pictured is a neighbors that helped us out.

We cut all our wheat that high. Just don't want to cut anymore straw than I have too.

As for the Autos. I forgot about price. Some guys have tried them in their trucks here and just rather have manuals. I don't even wanna get into how many our local milk hauler went through when he tried a auto. Just couldn't get it programmed to work with the slosh.

 

Zeefarmer9,

I do not see why you couldn't use your semi trucks in the field. I split a set of super b's at harvest and put a semi tractor on each 1/2 for use all fall. They work great! They have a nicer ride and haul way more than a tandem so there are less trips for each truck. If the field is wet, you can take less than a full load and the trailers will go through as much soft ground as a loaded tandem due to the increased floatation.

If you have enough licensed drivers it will make more sense to put a driver in each of the tridems you have now than it will to buy a grain cart and put the hours on the tractor.

It is very easy to fill a semi as the box is so huge. Just pull up beside the combine and set the truck at a constant speed and have the combine slow down or speed up to top off the truck. At the grain bins I have a wireless 12 volt mover for the swing auger so it can be placed under the truck without getting out of the truck or starting the tractor.

In the wetter areas, the floatation of a grain cart and tractor would be nice. In southern Alberta where I live it is seldom muddy in all areas of the fields at harvest. Lately with 2 combines I have started cutting a backwards circle from the inside out on my fields. The combines always have open ground to dump the truck on, the second combine has the longer round so it is not crowding the first one, and the truck has the whole open area in the center of the field to take shortcuts from one side to the other. When you hit the outside then you work off the little pieces that are left. Combines hardly ever stop cutting as there are no turns.

For my operation the only reason that I would consider a grain cart is that it would allow operators without a tandem or semi truck drivers license (ie. older kids, wives, girlfriends, older operators, those with drivers license suspensions, etc.). It is very hard here to find part time harvest help.