how fast can they go on the road?

 

I think you will find that Deere have bougth the company

 

If i remember right they go 30k/h

 

Experience should show that these skewed triangle design, with high drive sprocket will not be much better than their previous Waltonna design. Notice that the long offset is forward on the ROPA harvester for better floatation. Whereas the short offset is forward on the combine carrying the large cornhead, and the tracks nose dive in the soft ground. Why would they continue down that wrong path, again?

 

I don't really see the angle of approach being THAT big of a deal, it's a low speed thing, or when it's high speed, it's on a road. It's not like a Main Battle Tank crashing through anything and everything. IMO.

Bruce

 

I don't really see the angle of approach being THAT big of a deal, it's a low speed thing, or when it's high speed, it's on a road.
Bruce

It is not just angle of approach (although the front and rear rollers are relatively smaller than the Claas Terra Trac). The problem is torque and reaction of the whole system. Imaging, for example, 1000 lbs of belt tension, pulling up on the rear idler, 2 ft behind the drive sprocket, that equals 2,000 lbs of lift on the rear of the track. That has to be countered by the front idler, which is one approx. 1 ft. ahead of the driver sprocket, and must support 2,000 / 1 ft. or 2000lbs of down force, plus weight of the combine. .... the track will "nose dive" into the mud and there you dive, dead in the mud...IMO and per Newton's laws of physics. Alan

 

So if I understand this, the torque is trying to rotate the track backwards, pushing the whole machine down on the front. Huh. Never thought of that, but it's the same basic principle that makes tires go round. Good call on that.

Bruce

 

Yeah I noticed that offset right away too. My Griptracs are centered and seem to have a nice balance. If I go into a ditch they nose in a bit but then pull up on top. With the front idler closer to the drive wheel I can see it being a problem. If they were on a 2wd combine it wouldn't be as much of a problem because the tracks do more pulling than floating and that causes the track frame to want to rotate forward. With rear wheel assist it keeps more pressure on the front idler.

 

HARain, Griptrack, or Terra Trac ??

IMO, other good rubber track options include the Lexion combines, which is the only combine supplier that has over 20 years of experience building combines with integrated, factory installed rubber tracks.
The Claas 700 series Lexion series has the lastest version of their Terra Tracks which includes balanced design front to rear, low pivot point, live bottom suspension, 40 km/hr road transport speed, under 14 ft wide transport width. These provide better flotation than duals or wide floation tires. Also the flat top design gives nice access to the side sheet area.

CLAAS-Rotary Combines-LEXION 700 Series-Technology-TERRA TRAC

 

IMO, other good rubber track options include the Lexion combines, which is the only combine supplier that has over 20 years of experience building combines with integrated, factory installed rubber tracks.
The Claas 700 series Lexion series has the lastest version of their Terra Tracks which includes balanced design front to rear, low pivot point, live bottom suspension, 40 km/hr road transport speed, under 14 ft wide transport width. These provide better flotation than duals or wide floation tires. Also the flat top design gives nice access to the side sheet area.

CLAAS-Rotary Combines-LEXION 700 Series-Technology-TERRA TRAC

That does look like a Cadillac setup there but I can't help but laugh at that one line:
-The result is automatic leveling for improved stability on curves
Um yeah, improved stabilty on curves, on a combine that's always been my main concern!

Don

 

Agree with all that farmbuddy, tire "squish/unsquish" alone make tracks far more solid, stable, and still not John Deere.
Also to watch the videos it looks like Claas should have the smoothest track ride going. By far.

Don

 

Just wondering if any of the eastern Australian farmers had a chance to operator JD test combines w/ HARain tracks around Melbourne or other wet / flooded areas this past harvest season?

Currently very wet in eastern US cornbelt, delaying our Spring corn and soybean planting. 2011 shaping up to be another wet year and more market opportunity for the added floatation of tracks.

 

Just wondering if any of the eastern Australian farmers had a chance to operator JD test combines w/ HARain tracks around Melbourne or other wet / flooded areas this past harvest season?

Didn't get to test the new Deere but I sure wish we had a combine with tracks last summer. There is no worse a feeling than watching the best crop you've raised in the last 25 years literally rot in the field because you can't get to it!

 

Most buyers won't evaluate that track design with nearly the same level of detail as you, Alan. From Deere's perspective, it accomplishes all they need it to (allows the company and their sales force to say, "we have tracks too") in order to sell the combines. Sales first, performance second. TerraTrac is clearly superior in most respects, but to vast majority of buyers, tracks are tracks are tracks.

 

Wheat here in Central Indiana is now ready to cut, .... but we got 2" of rain overnight. Was planning to run a Torum 740 and also some JDs with SR Stripper headers. Right now it looks like the Lexions on tracks might be the only machines running around here this week, over wet ground and through tough wheat.

 

Deeres current machine is much lighter than a Lexion so it may not require optimum flotation. I have never heard of tracks that don't work, put them on a machine and drive through the mud, I don't see why it has to be so complicated

 

Deeres current machine is much lighter than a Lexion so it may not require optimum flotation. I have never heard of tracks that don't work, put them on a machine and drive through the mud, I don't see why it has to be so complicated

Its probably not... until you start to reach to ends of thier limits. Then those finer design points really start to show up imo.

9770 Base weight - 32,765
740 Base weight with tires - 37,000
7120 Base weight - 35,080
7088 Base weight - 33,500

9870 - 36,100
750 Tires- 37,500
8120 - 35,960

9120 - 35,960
760 Tire - 43,750

Just a quick look at whats posted on the websites. Lexion was the only one that stated thier weights were with 900 single tires, full fuel tank, no header. All the others just say shipping weight. So that probably means enough fuel to get it off the semi trailer. 250 gal of diesel fuel weights around 1800lbs I think.

But by looking at the Lexions... its obvious they are built heavier. Hopefully that translates into longevity.

 

They are heavier because of their design, the fact that they have a APS beater, cylinder, and two rotors jammed in there and only weigh that much is surprising. These single rotor machines have one big heavy rotor, the Lexion has several lighter components. I have talked to many diehard Lexion/Cat operators and longevity is never spoken of. I have heard of guys keeping them because its too expensive to switch colors so they just put up with the repairs.

I probably should stay more on topic. Anyone know if North american machines will get these Harain tracks?

 

Per the WNIF websight article: John Deere's new tracks also improve flotation and minimise soil compaction by spreading the combine load over a greater contact area, which also helps to reduce the input costs of following operations. Load peaks are eliminated by the unique hydro-pneumatic suspension system, and the combine's efficiency is increased through ultimate traction and machine stability. This allows higher field working speeds and the best possible contour following by the cutting platform.
For road transport, the combine's overall width of 3.5m and the five-axle carriage design meet all road regulations. Unproductive transport time is reduced to a minimum, since the combine can be driven at full speed. (Note: Not sure what that actual road speed will be, as it has not been disclosed yet. Expect 20 MPH / 32 kph)

John Deere has developed its own track system for the S Series combines.

(per news release.)

Is this a John Deere or HARain track?
Does JD own HARain now?
What are the track width options?
What is total footprint / flat plate area for each width?
What is the cost of the track option?


Will the S-series combines be convertible between tires and rubber tracks?
What is the "full speed" equivalent to in scientific terms of mph or kph????

 

HArain track side view

So has the max speed confirmed to be 30 kph (18 mph) per Profi?

Just looking at this side view, it looks like there is about 1/3 of the track ahead of the drive / pivot point..... and 2/3 of the track behind the pivot point. WTHUWT? This will tend to "nose dive", especially as the belt tension tends to pull up on the rear of the track. LOL.... At least it should be able to back out of a mud hole, as that configuration is not very ideal for good forward travel or flotation.

Here's what a good, balanced system should look like. Pivot located midway, between the front and the rear idlers to spread the load equally front to rear. Front and rear idlers large enough to keep climbing up on top of the soft ground.

Like the Deere, but Love the Lexion on 2006 Lexion 585R RWA combine | Dean Ag Services Rental Fleet Reduction Internet Auction

 

S

Just looking at this side view, it looks like there is about 1/3 of the track ahead of the drive / pivot point..... and 2/3 of the track behind the pivot point. WTHUWT? This will tend to "nose dive", especially as the belt tension tends to pull up on the rear of the track.

Farmbuddy, I wonder whether they are like that to compensate for the extra weight of the grain tank? Just a wild guess... I would imagine thats where the most force would be as the engine and/or rear of the combine should balance the header

 

Does every JD thread have to be all about Lexions? Yes, they are a good machine but how about information on JD on a JD thread? Is that possible?
In our area I only know of one farm that runs Lexion and we have a really good dealer in the area, actually multiple dealers.

 

Yes it does, in order to own a Lexion you have to constantly justify it to others by continually comparing them to Deere combines. Us Deere owners need to be educated that top notch parts & service together with an overall decent combine is not good enough for our farms.

 

Yes it does, in order to own a Lexion you have to constantly justify it to others by continually comparing them to Deere combines. Us Deere owners need to be educated that top notch parts & service together with an overall decent combine is not good enough for our farms.

well said , or ask them how much it cost to run that "beast" then it's "silence"


Kurt.

 

had them running in the uk a couple of years and have not had any floatation problems yet and we have had a couple of wet harvests

 

are they friction drive or direct drive like a red machine. friction drive doesn't work very well in really bad conditions. it's not new guys just deere playing catch up. the mid rollers being solid and all the rollers look small to me. but i need to see it in person.

 

HA Rain tracks are intriguing

Selected configuration:
Triangular traction unit with mid-central above positioned driving wheel Positive action type driving wheel for high rate of power transfer Pressure-by-load optimal drive motor with 5 sets of wheels Hydropneumatic suspension through rockers Hydrostatic or mechanical drive mechanism possible.​

Specifications Technical Data
The Belt Traction Crawler in action






http://www.harain.com/images/harain/muster2big.jpg


http://www.harain.com/images/harain/muster2big.jpg Previous symetrical triagular track from HARain shown on 70 series??? IMO, it looks that downward pressure on the front and rear idler would be equal. Equal weight distribution front to rear.

New JD HARain track configuration for S600 series. It looks like the tracks can also and must be able to pivot around the upper drive sprocket. If so, the short side would have less flat plate area under it, .... and the longer rear three roller more flat plate surface area under the back 2/3s.
If so, the short front length will not be able to support as much weight in soft soils and will tend to "nosedive".

Time and field demos will show whether this is an improvement.
More info available on the HARain websight: technical data

 

They look like 30" belts? Good to see Deere has an option. (I won't write my opinion on em)

 

Stupid,stupid Deere engineers!!!Did everything wrong again...Should have just copied the Lexion...but...oh no,that would have been wrong as well,since so many people here are so worried about Deere copying and refining ideas.

 

Do you realise you making this statement in a thread about a track system that Deere engineers didn't have a thing to do with...? You really don't help yourself sunshine.

 

Maybe they put them on backwards??? LOL

I would be concerned about how the front dove in the video also. Wonder in all reality why the long part cannot be installed on the front of the axle.

Oh, and yes jaydee, I'm sure you do know more...in your own mind anyway. LOL

 

Yours is obviously maxed out again.But thanks a lot for your input.