If you search on AgTalk, there are lots of guys convinced that the higher volumes of a ground rig more than make up any issues of driving crop. I don't know if there is that much better disease control, or that they can get on it in a timely manner when they want rather than waiting for a plane.


I really hated tracks in peas because it made feeding ugly. Probably be better with the auger head this year, but was a nightmare with the Honeybee.

 

We feel as long as we get the plane on time we use it. Just got finished yesterday did all the wheat, oats, peas and a few fields of canola. We went at the 3 gallon rate with the plane this year was a little more money but should be a little better coverage. It also got done really quick as we were fortunate that micair was able to bring 2 planes for a couple days

 

I often hear talk of green kernels from the tracks at harvest if you use a SP to spray fungicides.
I'm not talking using a plane just because it may be to muddy, I mean in general.
Thinking wheat or barley here, I don't think it's an issue for canola.
Anyone?

I think you need to find a way to minimize tracking with the ground rig (wider booms, crop dividers, tramlines, or all three!)

Do a few checks with a properly set ground rig and see if you can see a difference. Then hire a plane and go out and tarp some patches, then see if you can see a difference. Should be an easy decision, was for me.

 

Should be an easy decision, was for me.

Which is a SP I gather?
I have no SP sprayer, I do have a couple of salesmen trying to rectify that situation however.
So either way it's a hire job.
Seems grain graders get hung up on a fraction of a % of green kernels, kind of an any excuse will do feeling I sometimes get.

 

It's not just talk, it's a fact,Don. About 10 years ago I sprayed tilt by ground and swathed it then took a sample with combine 5 days later , the barley was bone dry except where the tracks were ,I was able to push my thumb nail threw the barley kernels that were in the tracks as they were still on the green side as the result of regrowth. Elevator manager advised me to wait for it cure more,so switched to combining canola ,finished that then it rained . My barley went from being Malt to feed . Been with aerial ever since.

 

On my farm I can only justify the plane if I am making just one pass through the field (post herbicide incrop). If I think I'll be doing 2 or more apps for fungi, insects, and preharvest glyphosate then I'll use the ground rig and follow the same tracks. Even though my tires are 380's, the tracks tend to get a little wider every time I make a subsequent operation. It also seems like by the time you've driven on those tracks multiple times the amount of regrowth (and therefore green kernels at harvest) gets reduced, but on only one pass there seems to be quite a bit more green in the tracks come harvest. As for coverage/effectiveness of either plane or SP, based on what I've seen on my farm with preharvest glyphosate, the plane did better at penetrating the canopy and getting the spray to ground level than my ground rig. However that is with a systemic product in tall cereals. With a contact product like Reglone (for desication on short, heavily canopied lentils) my ground rig does a better job than the plane. This year neither the plane nor ground rig did were overly effective with my fungicide application in heavy durum.

I think to get away from green kernels at harvest, what SWMan is doing with tramlines is ideal, but takes a lot of thought to wrap your head around to perfect it, at least for my small brain. I also think crop dividers would help out quite a bit to reduce green kernels. Big square fields would also benefit I think.

As for cost of application its easy to determine when you're paying a plane to do, but if you're doing it yourself or having it done with a ground rig one needs to factor in all the costs involved. If I'm doing it myself I peg $3/ac to operate my SP. Here is a link to the calculator I use to estimate what my wheel tracks cost me:

Ground vs Air

You should like the calculator Don, it's all in metric. Takes me awhile to do all the conversions to imperial but it gives a good idea of what your costs are given a few assumptions you make like crop yield and price.

 

Ground vs Air
You should like the calculator Don, it's all in metric. Takes me awhile to do all the conversions to imperial

No it doesn't.
That is neat but estimating the yield loss just on the track is pretty subjective though, SWAG material. Or less.
Oh, and did you know a sprayer has wheels on EACH side? Who knew!

 

We don't have an SP sprayer ether so when it comes time to do any later season in crop spraying such as for birtha army worms or lygus bugs we prefer to get a plane to spray the canola as smaller fields with so many headland acres becomes a trampled mess and can really be an issue with plugging the swather. When we are resigned to getting a ground rig in for canola and by this stage its all podded out and a tangled mess, typically they can't use crop dividers but we have them go at a 90 degree angle to the way we swath canola as it reduces canvas plugging in the main field and yes we do loose some canola to plants on the ground.

Now wheat, yes that is a whole other thing as our seeding tools we've used over the years are seeding on ether a 6 or 7 inch spacing and even with skinny tires and crop dividers its running down crop and its at the time of year where its been sprayed with roundup for preharvest weed and dry down of second growth wheat issues. Then straight combined and it seems to be a given that the seeds in the tracks are green that are still standing up enough to go through the combine but what also haunts us is the straw that is on the ground with heads still attached as some of those tend to get dragged around in the cultivator while applying NH3 and the next year those same tracks are growing massive amounts of wheat and not all of the wheat seeds germinate at the time of spraying in the spring so they get away and so have strips of wheat standing in the canola crop.

I expect these problems vary a certain amount depending on the growing area because of moisture variables and of the heat or lack of during the fall when the crop ripens, and the row spacing it was seeded with.

Don, before the employee starts grading your wheat, give him a cool pair of rose coloured sun glasses ... he sees what you want him to see !

 

When spraying prosaro, does temperature have much of an effect on it? I am using ground sprayer.

 

Now that our area has a guy spraying with an old bi-plane we park our sprayer for fungicides. I have watched the pattern off the back of his old Ag-Cat, and it beats the crap out of those new turboprop machines.

 

im wheat and barley, even with dividers and skinny tires, etc, wheel tracks are an issue. The plant either regrows or is set back. I know farmers that drive their tracks before harvest to stomp down the green plants. With 320's and 100 ft boom, you will tramp 3.4 acres. With the plane no tramping no ruts.

 

Sprayed 320 acres of Acapella in Canola yesterday. What a ****ing mess. The plane is coming to do the rest of the canola. Underneath crop canopy the soil is slippery wet, traction was becoming an issue, especially on side hills, and we haven't had much rain in the last week! Flowering canola is no place for a ground rig, IMO. Wont be trying that again anytime soon.

Lentils, peas, and cereals seem to be ok. 90% of our cereal crops will be dessicated with Rup preharvest, so green kernels shouldn't be an issue for us. And lentils and peas will all be dessicated too.

 

This with Tridekon crop dividers. Snotty slimy slippery fields as well. 12" spacing on rows. Thought it made a pretty good job. I also prefer 12 gpa to 2 or 3. 3 days later the rows are already starting to reclose. WOULD NOT just trample over my canola with a ground rig. The Dividers do a reasonable job so am able to stomach it at least.

 

What size tires are you using?

 

Ground rig if you have your own. If I had to pay 6 for custom ground rig or 8 for a plane I would probably do plane. We only use a plane when it's too wet. Dividers on 120' boom and done on time.

 

Most planes around here are 10 dollars an acre. One company is doing it for 8.75 but you have to haul the water and mix and load the plane.

It was an easy decision for us, $75000 for the plane to apply all of our fungicide or sit in the sprayer for a week. One more good day and I am done.

I do kind of agree if its just one pass the plane isn't a bad idea but we sprayed at the flag leaf and now at heading for fuzz and later we will be dessicating. We have RTK so I can pretty much follow my same track perfectly and hopefully by doing it twice it kills the wheel tracks right out. We never had a problem before with green kernels. Its a hard pill to swallow to make a sprayer payment and then pay for a plane also.

 

In my area a plane will be $9.00-$9.50. I always figure it cost me about $2-2.50 with my sprayer. With 120ft boom I figure you run over 2%, add dividers and I think it's down to 1%. For my farm right now, durum worth $8/bu, 40bu crop(could easily end up being 50, fingers crossed) so I will trample $3.20/ac. It's starts to get pretty close in price difference if that's the only pass.

I will do some myself and use a plane to help me get more done at the perfect time. I will also be spraying for midge at the same time, and I don't think you can put a price on having to spray lorsban. The plane will get those acres for sure.

 

Studies have shown time and again that 2-3 gal/acre of water from a plane is simply not enough water to provide coverage in a decent crop canopy. Wheel tracks suck, but when you spend $20/acre on Sclerotinia fungicides you need it to last. 12-15 gal/acre by a ground rig will always provide better coverage than a plane, no matter what they say about their so-called "vortex" effect. We spray all of our fungicides with a ground rig. A lot cheaper that way too, even with wheel tracks.

 

tramlines as cpmomg from uk its not the answer you still get green wheel tracks and i gotta agree with duchek hard pill to swallow paying for the plane when got 350 k tied up in the yard

 

Ground unit is making 4-5 passes in crop this year in the same tracks so plane is not needed unless we get busy. 120' boom with 320 tires. 1 pass 10 gal fert, 1 pass herbicide 2 passes fungicide and once to desiccate all in same tracks.

 

Went from 380 to 320 and a big diff leave's lot more crop standing , no idea what number to give it .
Also use tridekon , spraying 90 grand on fungi not sure if that bill is justified yet?
Plane is waste of money in my books.
If this fungicide thing is gonna stay we need wider booms !!

 

I'm running 230/95R44(9.5" wide) with Tridekon dividers and I am trampling very few canola plants and after a few days you can hardly see my tracks and in wheat you can hardly see tracks right after i spray the field. I would only hire a plane if it was too wet to get in the field with my sprayer.

 

I'm running 230/95R44

I'm going to guess this is a fairly light sprayer with a fairly small tank?

 

4700 JD with 750 US gallon tank. Gotta stay outta the soft spots.

 

I can well imagine!
How much air do you run in the tires?

 

50 psi

 

Hmm, not bad.

 

I figured they would need more air than that when we got them. They are a 12 ply tire.

 

Jdstsman how do those tires handle the mud? Do you cut deep ruts when the fields are soft? After the wet conditions the past few weeks I'm not sure I would want a tire smaller than a 380 on our 4420.

 

I'm not making any ruts right now when in the crop but if I go where it hasn't been seeded, they make pretty good ruts. I sprayed some wheat at flag and it was a tad muddy and they didn't seem bad at all but if it got really muddy, I would stay out of the field.