Just had a major explosion inside the Cat 16 speed that was possibly caused by failed thrust washers. The updates were done at 1800 hrs and now the transmission has a major failure at 4400 hrs. Oil changes and filters have been done and since I have owned the tractor the filters have been cut regularly and show nothing caught in the filters. Is this normal for these transmissions? I thought these were supposed to be almost bullet proof. When it blew up it was on the road at full speed. Is there a connection there to high speed and what appears to be thrust washer failure again??? Is there any expectation of some kind of help from Mother Agco since this is a failure of an issue that was a warranty update. This is very disappointing that the component that I trusted the most of the whole tractor has had a catastrophic $$$$$$ failure. Any input on this would be greatly appreciated.
965B Transmission failure
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Transaxial
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Joe do you "road" your Challenger to the Greenland operation??!! When do you start seeding there?:18:
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It's quite the road trip considering our southern operation is in Timbuktu......:22:
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Did the tech do a clutch cal or a tranny cal? Transmission calibrations shouldn't have to be performed until clutch fill times are out of whack... Maybe got a bad cal at the factory? On the C series there was a procedure you could do from the seat for the clutch cal. Push in and let out the clutch slowly three times while in neutral if I remember correct. Resets the value of the position sensors on the clutch pedal, helps with clutch modulation...
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Don't quote me.... It been a while but yes I think that will work on a C series.
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I am reviving this old thread on Cat TA-22 ps transmissions to maybe clear up some questions as to what oil to use in them which seems to vary greatly, even from Agco. If what I am finding regarding Agco’s 821XL oil for the TA-22 is true, it could be at the root of an alarming number of failures. I realize this is a very complex topic with every oil supplier and retailer quick to recommend their oil as a superior product. But there are few oils that meet the Cat specs for the TA-22 transmission. Cat stopped selling and recommending their old TO-2 spec oil in 1990. It was just a glorified straight grade motor oil of the day for hydraulic systems. That is the spec of most hytran type oils even today, including Agco 821XL as per Nebraska test which lists this as the right oil. Does anyone else have suggestions of what Agco calls for in this transmission? To make matters worse, many oil supplyers have followed the trend to multigrade oils which is absolutely against the Cat TDTO and newer TO-4 specs. Although Cat does have a TDTO-TMS multigrade for extreme temp range. But looking further into what Versatile uses as a factory fill on their TA-22s in the big tractor line, it is Shell DonaxTD which is a straight grade replacement for Cats TO-4. Maybe that is why Versatile is not having transmission problems? Cat TO-4 (TDTO) oil is said to have additives that significantly reduce gear wear compared to TO-2 spec oils. It could be the .127% zinc in TO-4 oils. I have only found a few oils that meet the Cat TDTO 10W and TO-4 specs. As mentioned the Versatile factory fill Shell Donax TD, Shell Spirax S3, Hytran Ultra, Q8 TO-4 fluid 10W, Allison C-4 and C-3, and a major transmission rebuilder that recommends Mobil HD30 and no multigrades ( I can’t find that one in the TO-4 list). In the Cat world multigrade oils are not used except in extreme cold situations because multigrades do not have the molecular shear strength of straight grade oils. This is very important in a high load transmission environment. Check out Caterpillar Service Publication SEBU 6250 (Cat machine fluid recommendations). P 17-18. I will try to post that segment after I post this.
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I can’t get it to copy so will just type it out. This is the Cat service publication SEBU 6250 and from page 17-18.
Commercial multigrade oils must meet the requirements of Cat TO-4(M) specs to be used in transmissions. Multigrade oils that use high molecular weight polymers as viscocity index improvers may lose the viscosity effectiveness. This effectiveness may be lost by the temporary shear of the polymer viscocity index improver. Permanent shear of polymer viscocity index improver may occur. These types of multigrade oils are not recommended for Caterpillar drive train compartments. The Cat TO-4M performance requirements include a test for the shear stability of multigrade oil.
I think it is worth checking your transmission oil to verify that it is one that meets the Cat TO-4 specs. I hope you have good luck with your TA-22!
Commercial multigrade oils must meet the requirements of Cat TO-4(M) specs to be used in transmissions. Multigrade oils that use high molecular weight polymers as viscocity index improvers may lose the viscosity effectiveness. This effectiveness may be lost by the temporary shear of the polymer viscocity index improver. Permanent shear of polymer viscocity index improver may occur. These types of multigrade oils are not recommended for Caterpillar drive train compartments. The Cat TO-4M performance requirements include a test for the shear stability of multigrade oil.
I think it is worth checking your transmission oil to verify that it is one that meets the Cat TO-4 specs. I hope you have good luck with your TA-22!
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I get the multigrade thing but who is putting multi grade oil in the trans?? Surely nobody is putting a 10w30 or a 15w40 or the like in the trans?
So cat recommends just a straight 10w tdto oil in these transmissions? Not a 30w?
And it looks like they lump all there powershift transmissions together for oil recommendations? not a specific oil for a ta22 or a ta19 or whatever other models there are.
And it looks like they lump all there powershift transmissions together for oil recommendations? not a specific oil for a ta22 or a ta19 or whatever other models there are.
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What would be wrong with hytran? As far as I know it’s not multigrade and something around a weight of 46
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Related question. In our Cat D8K, it calls for the now obsolete TO2 TDTO oil.
Found the replacement, but hardly anyone carries it, and it is expensive. Is there anything unique about these powershifts that they can't use a modern high quality trans hyd oil?
Found the replacement, but hardly anyone carries it, and it is expensive. Is there anything unique about these powershifts that they can't use a modern high quality trans hyd oil?
Agco 821XL is 10w30
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If you run the synthetics then Cat has no issue with multigrade TDTO or TO-4. Even in the books for my 7H Series II in 1995, where they get into detail about the recent change from TO-2, they list synthetic multigrade TDTO for the transmission in three grades, 0W20, 0W30 and 5W20 as options.
And if you go thru the SEBU TA posted, they list synthetic multigrade TDTO as well, the 0W20 is called TDTO Cold Weather and the other which I never did see a specific grade, was called TDTO TMS and looks like it has a very wide temp use range and carries a TO-4M spec.
And if you go thru the SEBU TA posted, they list synthetic multigrade TDTO as well, the 0W20 is called TDTO Cold Weather and the other which I never did see a specific grade, was called TDTO TMS and looks like it has a very wide temp use range and carries a TO-4M spec.
Just curious if the newer ta 22 transmissions still have this issue. I was looking at a 965E model and have been told that the trany problem has been fixed by a bigger oil journal in the housing. Is this a salesman blowing smoke our is this actually correct. This dealer had replaced 3 trans in 8xx models but claimed the new one would not fail as it was fixed.
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I guess time will tell on the updates. My 2008 965B had transmission updates done in the first couple of years but while it was apart from a major failure at road speed about 4 years ago, there was something about drilling out oil holes to increase flow. I have been following what is going on with all this and this past winter came across the above info in this thread and questions on the 821XL oil that Agco recommends but seems to not be a straight grade oil meeting Cat TO-4 specs. Versatile uses a factory fill on this transmission of Shell Donax TD which meets Cat TO-4 specs and they have not had the number of failures as Agco. Is it the oil??? Other than that I loved the tractor.
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Hytran Ultra is an EP oil and is listed as a replacement for Cat TO-4. So you think it is straight grade 46? Agco 821XL does not seem to be listed as a TO-4 oil. 821XL is what Agco specifically gave me for the 965. I wish I had used the Hytran Ultra that I have in bulk in my shop.
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